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[ga-full] Re: Transfers: A bit of an explanation
Your on the ball here. Your lawyer friend was reffering to the equity
laws in Canada which govern the proceedure in small claims courts there.
Just out of curiousity - which in small claims court jurisdiction is
tucows or open SRS located. Does anyone from opensrs know? According to
a domain search opensrs is located at #901 70 Dixfield in Toronto but the
contract shows them at 5415 Dundas Street West - both addresses are west
of the don river which divides the general courts jurisdiction.
In any case - the main problem is you'd need a real yahoo who either lives
in TO and wants to pay the bucks to make it happen. Small Claims is about
$70 to start an action. Or someone willing to pay the paralegals to
represent them. Would it be worth the value of the domain $10.00.
I'd love to see it happen. Could be a rude awakening for ICANN and
opensrs.
Regards
Joe
On Sun, 2 Apr 2000, Coolfred Internet Services wrote:
>
> I had a discussion about this issue with a friend who is
> an active corporate lawyer in Toronto. For me this issue
> has been clearly settled now after his statement. He indicated
> that according to law (at least in Canada), if you pay for
> a property, be it a domain name or even an idea for the purpose
> of reselling it and then your would be customer backs out on
> payment for whatever reason, you as the reseller are the lawful
> owner of that property. What OpenSRS (Or ICANN for that matter)
> write in a contract would not matter because their contract
> cannot go against the laws governing your local laws. OpenSRS
> or ICANN can say that Mr. X, the end user, who we don't
> even know is the owner. But unless in a court of law
> they can show that Mr. X actuallY PAID for it, they stand NO CHANCE
> and would have zero defense. So if you are REALLy worried
> about losing to an end "luser" because they back out
> and then OpenSRS or ICANN tells you "no it is not yours",
> don't be. A lawsuit in a small claims court would easily settle
> this. I hope things will not get to this point for any of RSPs.
> I for one would opt for more friendly settlements, but
> at the same time I advise OpenSRS to seriously reevaluate
> this issue (with lawyers), because from what I understood
> the notion of "you pay for it but the guy who clicked
> on the
> mouse owns it" will not stand in court.
>
> The ONLY time the court will give the name to the end user
> or even allow OpenSRS to refuse to give ownership to you
> (meaning the person who directly paid OpenSRS) is when
> OpenSRS or the end user show that THE END-USER paid for this.
> Fortunately for RSPs, the burden of proof lies on the
> end-user
> (or OpenSRS of they refuse a transfer of ownership to RSP)
> to show who paid for the domain.
>
> Simply put it: You pay for it, you own it. No contract
> written by OpenSRS can go against this and as my friend
> lawyer said, the ONLY time OpenSRS can dispute your ownership
> of the domain is if they directly charge a customer for
> the domain.
>
> I strongly suggest the governing body of OpenSRS/Tucows
> to look into this issue with professional lawyers, because
> the position taken here (not necessary the action) so far
> is not lawful and if a dispute occurs, the whole thing can fall apart.
>
> I for one, will continue to manually register domains
> for my customers (meaning I have control), until this is
> clearly settled. This best protects me and my legitimate
> customers.
>
>
> Farhad Sadeghi
> Coolfred Internet Services
> http://www.coolfred.net
>
>
>
>
> --- David Denney <Pine.BSF.4.05.10003312001300.30325-100000@home.samurai.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, Mar 31, 2000 at 08:05:02PM -0500, Scott Allan wrote:
> >> There are risks to accepting credit cards, as I am sure you are aware.
> >
> >Yes there are. If somebody charges back their Internet Service
> >I cut them off. If they refuse to pay for what they'v used,
> >I send them to collections.
> >
> >> I am sure this will not be a big issue - as much as it seems to be a
> >> theorhetical point of contention, practically I do not see it being a real
> >> threat to anyone.
> >
> >If its not that big a threat, then why state emphaticly that
> >you would refuse to assist an ISP in protecting their interests?
> >There seems to be no reasoning. If _I_ paid OpenSRS for the
> >registration, why should some luser get to keep it when you
> >can do something about it? It will just result in a lawsuit.
> >It is quite clear that whomever PAID for the domain is the
> >rightful owner of it.
> >
> >> sA
> >
> >--
> >David Denney | D i m e n s i o n a l C o m m u n i c a t i o n s |
> >daud@dimensional.com | DSL/V90/K56flex/V34/ISDN/Frame/T1/T3 starts @$12/mo |
> >303.285.INET voice | http://www.dimensional.com/ info@dimensional.com |
> >888.3.DIMCOM tollfree | Denver * Boulder * Longmont * Bailey * CO-Springs |
> >
> >...they can have my ssh when they pry the keyboard out of my cold, dead hands!
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free Email address at http://freemail.coolfred.org brought to you by http://www.coolfred.net
>
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