RE: [ga] MOTION - "In Favour" or "Opposed" ???

["Roberto Gaetano" <ga_list@hotmail.com>]

Vany,

I agree with Chuck.
Motions with no new elements will not achieve any result.
The Board will not create any new constituency unless there is wide evidence 
of the support for it. And by "support" I don't mean the usual statement by 
a few dozen individuals, or the moral support of the NC, I mean a real 
"project", potentially able to attract membership by the hundreds (better if 
by the thousands).
Something that cannot be achieved unless we change the approach 
"qualitatively". A possibility, that I have proposed in the past and that 
did not gather a lot of enthusiasm, was to contact membership organizations 
that have an internet focus (or at least a HiTech focus), like ISOC, ACM, 
Universities, ...
I still think that this is the only way to progress.

But, of course, if the chosen course of action is to gather the usual 50 
signatures on a petition, feel free to count me in. I've signed so many 
useless petitions in my life that one more, one less, does not matter (and 
this one has the advantage of not asking for a cash contribution at the same 
time).

Regards
Roberto
(fifth of the day - over and out)


>From: Nilda Vany Martinez Grajales <vany@sdnp.org.pa>
>To: "[ga]" <ga@dnso.org>
>Subject: RE: [ga] MOTION - "In Favour" or "Opposed"  ???
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:42:39 +0000 (UTC)
>
>Hi Chuck:
>
>When the constiuecnies were created, there wasn't any group formed yet.
>All constituencies were organized after they creation by the ICANN Board,
>not before.  This means that individuals doesn't have to be organized
>before the ICANN Board decides to add an individual constituencie.  What
>IDNO and other organizations and individuals are asking to ICANN Board is
>that recognizes the need of a Constituency that represents the interests
>of the Individual Domain Names Holders.  Once the ICANN Board recognize
>such need and creates a new constituency, then, and only then, the groups
>interested in concrete such constituency by means of a charter begins to
>organize themselves for futher approoval of the ICANN Board of such
>charter.
>
>The steps decribed above was the procedures almost all constituencies
>followed, including the Non-Commercial Domain Names Holders Constituency.
>
>If ICANN Board have the intention to create a new Constituency that
>representes the Individual Domain Names Owners, then they should make a
>resolution of such intentions and instruct publicly all the requirements
>and procedures to follow for those groups that wish to organize such new 
>constituency.
>
>Best Regards
>Vany
>:-)
>
>On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > The Bylaws already allow for the creation of a new constituency but the
> > board would have to approve the addition which would result in an 
>amendment
> > to the Bylaws as I understand it.  As you said very well below, nothing 
>will
> > convince the board and the NC more than proof of a solid, representative
> > organization already in place and ready to go.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William S. Lovell [mailto:wsl@cerebalaw.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 12:26 PM
> > To: Gomes, Chuck
> > Cc: [ga]
> > Subject: Re: [ga] MOTION - "In Favour" or "Opposed" ???
> >
> >
> > Mr. Gomes:
> >
> > Well said. "Rhetoric" is what's been happening for years, some 
>constructive
> > and some back alley scrapping. The idea that our rushing to a "vote"
> > (although I've noted that I'm in favor of having this little "yeah, nay" 
>bit
> > just to see where the land lies) will accomplish anything is naive to 
>the
> > extreme. Too much personality, grinding old axes, and so on, without
> > much show of solidarity. Each blast from Party A at Party B adds more
> > to the image. So far as I've been able to tell, there are, indeed, no 
>means
> > established here for having a definitive "vote" on anything, nor even 
>the
> > slightest notion of what would be done with the results of the vote 
>except
> > ship it off to ICANN and watch it headed right for the round file.
> >
> > Other than the Business Constituency and IDNO and the like, after poring
> > over the ICANN pages I've seen no web sites presenting the credentials
> > of any "constituency" or any authoritative listing of what or who the
> > various
> > constituencies are, other than the listings of the Supporting 
>Organizations
> > and
> > the original listing out of the Bylaws which lists bodyless names (ccTLD
> > Registries, Commercial and Business entities, ISPs and connectivity
> > providers, Non-commercial domain name holders, Registrars, and.
> > Trademark, intellectual property, anti-counterfeiting interests). The 
>thing
> > with ICANN is that if you're not on that list, or authoritatively 
>identified
> > with some line on that list, you're toast.  I've seen no recognition 
>that
> > since
> > the constituencies are defined in the Bylaws, if one wants to create a 
>new
> > constituency one must amend the Bylaws -- you go in and pore through
> > them to see how that is done, and you direct your efforts towards that
> > rather than burn up more septillions of electrons expounding ideas (some
> > good, some dreadful) and hassling other list members.
> >
> > This "I demand the right to vote" tack, with no thought towards what
> > comes next, is utterly amateurish, and is taken quite properly as a sign
> > that "that bunch has no idea what it's doing and can be ignored."  It is
> > not enough to exclaim that "ICANN has been told to run itself 'bottom
> > up' so that somehow, and magically, 'it must allow an individual domain
> > name holder constituency,' since it does have mechanisms by which
> > people can be heard, if those steps were only utilized. It's all a 
>matter
> > of process, i.e., using the right one.
> >
> > One follows the ICANN mechanisms, not just expound rhetoric at an
> > ICANN meeting and be ignored. One tries to garner support from the
> > other SOs.  One lobbies the Directors, one by one, remembering that
> > ICANN does NOT operate by representative government -- the Board
> > members placed there by particular SOs are not there to represent the
> > SO that did so; they are there to "advance the good of the Corporation"
> > (or words to that effect).
> >
> > The ICANN constituency list has been locked in stone since day one, in
> > its Bylaws, and it will stay that way until organized and concerted 
>effort
> > is
> > made to amend those Bylaws.
> >
> > Bill Lovell
> >
> > "Gomes, Chuck" wrote:
> >
> > > I am one who supports the possible value of an individual domain name
> > > holders constituency but as I said publicly in Melbourne, I don't 
>believe
> > > that discussing it and passing motions that there should be one will
> > > accomplish much.  That has all happened in the past and look where we 
>are.
> > >
> > > If you really want to make this happen, then organize such a 
>constituency
> > > and then you will be able to clearly demonstrate with objective data 
>its
> > > viability, its representativeness, etc.  Neither the NC nor the ICANN
> > board
> > > is going to do this for you and it seems highly unlikely that they 
>will
> > > approve a new constituency without evidence beyond simple rhetoric.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Patrick Corliss [mailto:patrick@corliss.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:56 PM
> > > To: William X. Walsh
> > > Cc: [ga]
> > > Subject: [ga] MOTION - "In Favour" or "Opposed" ???
> > >
> > > Hi William
> > >
> > > Thank you William.  I agree with you here and suggest that we all tone
> > down
> > > personal attitudes as these will destroy any opportunity for 
>consensus.
> > >
> > > I also note your own personal support of a constituency for individual
> > > domain name holders.  Joe Kelsey is also with you on this one.  Many
> > others
> > > are also.  Those that have said so specifically seem to me to include:
> > >
> > > In favour:
> > > Joop Ternstra
> > > William X. Walsh
> > > Roeland Meyer
> > > Joe Kelsey
> > > Marc Schneiders
> > > Patrick Corliss
> > > Leah Gallegos
> > > Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > > Andrew McMeikan
> > > Chris McElroy (aka NameCritic)
> > > Eric Dierker
> > > Jeff Williams
> > >
> > > Opposed:
> > > nobody
> > >
> > > Have I missed anybody?  Can I ask for a count before we consider 
>putting
> > it
> > > to a vote?
> > >
> > > Please advise IN FAVOUR or OPPOSED.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Patrick Corliss
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: William X. Walsh <william@userfriendly.com>
> > > To: Joop Teernstra <terastra@terabytz.co.nz>
> > > Cc: <ga@dnso.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re[2]: [ga] MOTION: Request for a GA resolution on an IDN
> > holders'
> > > constituency (IC)
> > >
> > > > Hello Joop,
> > > >
> > > > Tuesday, May 08, 2001, 4:21:05 PM, Joop Teernstra wrote:
> > > > > If you can't even bear reading the IDNO in the considerans, then
> > perhaps
> > > > > the motion is better off without your "support".
> > > >
> > > > I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means, that you are in it
> > > > more for the personal glory than for the concept of getting a real
> > > > individual's constituency created in the DNSO.
> > > >
> > > > If you truly want to see an individual's constituency adopted, with
> > > > as broad support as would be needed to get this controversial issue
> > > > push forward, then you would well do to set your personal issues
> > > > aside, and remove the IDNO from any considerations.
> > > >
> > > > I'd hate to see the IDNO issue become a subject of debate again,
> > > > especially at this very important moment.
> > > >
> > > > But there are enough people who share the concerns with regard to 
>the
> > > > IDNO itself that any effort to make the IDNO even a small focus of
> > > > this movement will meet with solid and loud opposition.
> > > >
> > > > Is it really worth it for this little personal glory, Joop?
> > > >
> > > > I think deep down you are a bigger person than that.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > William X Walsh
> > >
> > > --
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>
>--
>Nilda Vany Martinez Grajales
>IT Specialist
>Sustainable Development Networking Programme/Panama
>Tel: (507) 230-4011 ext 213
>Fax: (507) 230-3455
>e-mail: vany@sdnp.org.pa
>http://www.sdnp.org.pa
>
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