Re: [ga] Songbird in the BC?

[Jefsey Morfin <jefsey@wanadoo.fr>]

Dear Jeff,
Kent is perfectly eligible to share in the NCDNHC as a represenative for 
the non-profit yachclub he is a member. Members of the BC or of the DNHC 
are not the individuals but the organizations. Can be Members of the BC:

- every business organizations except those representing ISP, registry, 
registrars and IP firms so BC does not compete with the other constituencies.
- every business of more than one year of age and is not predominantly a 
Registry, a Registrar or an ISP. Others may become observers.

What counts in the BC is not what someone does, but what is the business 
area of who pays him/her and the tearly fee.

I note that New.net has perfectly the right to become a BC Member if being 
in business for more than one year, otherwise the BC would acknowledge they 
are a Registry (i.e. that their TLDs are valid TLDs for them). They 
obviously are but this contradicts the BC position on ICP-3.

Jefsey

On 23:43 25/10/01, Jeff Williams said:
>James and all assembly members,
>
>   No you can belong to more than one constituency, but can only
>vote as a member of one constituency.  But this really isn't what
>is in question with respect to Kent Crispin's Songbird.com.  The
>concern is that how can Kent be a member of both the BC
>and the NCDNHC constituencies when his enterprise is obviously
>a FOR PROFIT organization?  It would seem in that Songbird.com
>is NOT a non-profit organization and therefore should not be a
>member of the NCDNHC or if it is registered as a non-profit
>than he should not be a member of the BC under the songbird.com
>organization...
>
>   However this does not preclude Kent from belonging to two
>constituencies per se.  But he seems to have done so improperly,
>and I think he knows this as does the BC principals.  Hence it
>would seem inconsistent that this should be allowed and the
>ICANN BoD in it's oversight capacity should instruct
>the BC to clarify why Kent under songbird.com is a member
>and in what status, or instruct the BC principals to take action
>to correct this problem forthwith.
>
>   My guess is that the ICANN BoD had no idea that this situation
>existed, but it should have, and that it has no intention of addressing
>this problem in it's oversight capacity in the near term, if at all....
>
>   BTW, we have discussed this concern when the formation of
>the Constituency's were under way and that this was commonly
>considered one method that could be used to "Stack the Deck"
>so to speak so as to allow for certain participants or types of
>participants to have an unfair advantage over others for the
>purposes of policy decision making and consensus determination.
>
>James Love wrote:
>
> > How many constituencies can you belong to?  I thought it was just one.
> > Jamie
> >
> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Eric Dierker wrote:
> >
> > > The following is one of the finest examples of elitist crap one can 
> find.  I can
> > > just see this - Old chap smoking a fancy pipe while directing his boy 
> to clean
> > > his eight iron,  "but of course anyone can join the club old 
> boyo,  Oh and by
> > > the way here is a statement regards ISPs my barrister drew up for 
> your ignorant
> > > understanding"
> > >
> > > Get a grip Crispin your elitist days are numbered.  Tell us about the 
> Yacht Club
> > > deal.  Tell us about your consultancy with ICANN - how about a financial
> > > disclosure?
> > >
> > > Better yet disclose your relationship with the executive committee of 
> our BoD.
> > > Is there a stipend that the GA could use associated with such 
> services.  While
> > > Roberts tells us that ICANN cannot support a GA or an AL tell us how 
> much they
> > > afford on your services.  And you are a member of two Constituencies?
> > >
> > > Come clean or drop your comments Mr. lonely bird.  I used to think 
> that what you
> > > do is your business but now I see that you take money that could allow
> > > individual users a voice on the Internet.  I hope you sleep well.
> > >
> > > Quite Sincerely,
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > Kent Crispin wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2001 at 09:34:38PM -0400, DannyYounger@cs.com wrote:
> > > > > Jefsey, you indicated that Songbird recently became a member of the
> > > > > business constituency.  The Songbird website
> > > > > http://songbird.com/songbird/index.html seems to indicate that the
> > > > > company is primarily an ISP.
> > > >
> > > > ISP's, by the definition used in the ISP and BC constituency,
> > > > fundamentally provide internet connectivity to end users.  Songbird 
> does
> > > > not provide internet connectivity to anyone.  Instead, Songbird's
> > > > services are limited to website hosting, design, development, and
> > > > consulting.  Entities that provide these services are sometimes loosely
> > > > referred to as ISPs, because the term "ISP" is used differently by
> > > > different people.  But as it is used in ICANN, Songbird is not an ISP.
> > > > (There is another term common in the business, "Internet Presence
> > > > Provider").
> > > >
> > > > > How then can it be a full member of the BC
> > > > > instead of merely an admitted observer?
> > > >
> > > > You could have figured this out yourself, but of course that would not
> > > > serve your purpose.
> > > >
> > > > > BC Charter:  "Legally recognized for-profit business enterprises 
> that have
> > > > > been in business for less than one year and companies whose 
> predominant
> > > > > business is to be a registry, a registrar or an ISP cannot have full
> > > > > membership status, but may become observers."
> > > > >
> > > > > I seems that Kent has developed the knack of being in a number of
> > > > > constituencies simultaneously while the rest of us remain 
> unrepresented.
> > > > > Interesting.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it is interesting.  It proves that the claims that you and others
> > > > make about being unrepresented are simply bogus noise.  Anyone who
> > > > seriously wants to participate can do so.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kent Crispin                               "Be good, and you will be
> > > > kent@songbird.com                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain
> > > > --
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > --------------------------
> > James Love, Consumer Project on Technology, http://www.cptech.org
> > love@cptech.org, v. 1.202.387.8030, f 1.202.234.5176
> >
> > --
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>
>Regards,
>
>--
>Jeffrey A. Williams
>Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!)
>CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
>Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
>E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
>Contact Number:  972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827
>Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>
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