[ga] Re: FC: Replies to Ben Edelman's report on "whois" database errors

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Declan, Robert and all,

Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Previous Politech message:
>
> "Ben Edelman's report on intentional errors in 'whois' database"
> http://www.politechbot.com/p-03520.html
>
> ---
>
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:26:22 -0400
> To: politech@politechbot.com
> From: "Robert L. Ellis" <rellis@internet-attorneys.com>
> Subject: Fwd: FC: Ben Edelman's report on intentional errors in "whois"
> database
>
> Declan,
>
> Ben has performed a valuable service in his studies on domain name
> misinformation and unrelated-content misdirection, so I hate to
> nitpick.  But since part of this discussion is about draft legislation that
> claims to address the problem (HR-4640) we should try to be accurate about
> legal terminology.

  Good point here Robert  But I also don't like to nitpik either but it has been

clear from more than a year back now in some ICANN discussions
regarding Whois data that Ben's "Study" was mainly motivated by
the privacy issue with respect to domain name registration...  Hence
making this "Study" tainted in that respect and to a great degree
with the EU's position of late on private and personal information
being made publicly available a la a Whois record for a domain
name registered...

>
>
> In his case study of NicGod, Ben refers to registrants who "intentionally
> provide systematically inaccurate contact information to registrars for
> inclusion in the WHOIS database," and writes that "[s]uch fraud can include
> the entry of invalid street addresses and phone numbers . . . ."

  Yeah, well ben is really reaching and using this "Study" for political
purposes that have not true relationship to fraud of any real sort...

>
>
> Entering such misinformation may be repugnant, but it is not
> fraud.  Nothing in Ben's study that I could find documented any cases of
> fraud arising out of the false information given to the
> registrars.  Indeed, Ben does not accuse these folks of doing anything
> illegal as far as I can tell.

  Nor could I or any of our legal staff.

>
>
> A similar misunderstanding seems to characterize discussions of
> HR-4640.  Contrary to reports, that bill would NOT criminalize the practice
> of entering false domain registration information.  Providing false or
> misleading information to a registrar would be a crime ONLY if  done "with
> intent to defraud."   The "intent" provision renders the bill more or less
> useless (and I predict it will die in committee), since "intent to defraud"
> would be virtually impossible to prove.  The "intent" of the NicGod people
> and their ilk is probably not to defraud, but rather to protect their
> anonymity while engaging in their (currently legal) bottom-feeding activity.

  I don't know if I would characterize protecting ones privacy a "bottom-feeding

Activity".  So I would say let's not jump to such conclusions or lump
privacy advocates that wish to be domain name holders in every case,
as "Bottom feeding activities", shall we?  >;)

>
>
> In any event, criminal penalties seem rather extreme.  Wouldn't it be
> easier simply to provide that the domain name would be forfeited?

  Yes it would.  But there still is the privacy problem...

>
>
> And for that matter, as long as the WHOIS database is a public record and
> can be exploited by spammers and con artists, why should it be wrong to
> enter false information?  Why not simply enter all false information except
> for email contact, register for five years, change the email contact to a
> fake one, and then just before renewal time change it back?  (Assuming one
> is willing to risk losing the domain via a UDRP.)  It's no different than
> an unlisted number.  If spammers and con artists are willing to engage in
> guerilla tactics, why not the rest of us?

  Good points here Robert!

>
>
> - Bob Ellis
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ellis Venable & Busam
> A Partnership of Professional Organizations
> 33 North High Street, Columbus, OH 43215-3076
> +1 614.221.2422 phone   221.5244 fax
> www.internet-attorneys.com
>
> ---
>
> From: admin@consumer.net (admin)
> To: <edelman@law.harvard.edu>
> Cc: <declan@well.com>, <info@archive.org>, <brewster@alexa.com>
> Subject: FW: Ben Edelman's report on intentional errors in "whois" database
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:04:30 -0400
>
> And so who gave Archive.org (Owned by Amazon.com) permission to
> reproduce all the web pages?  .... Or doesn't the DMCA apply to
> companies like Amazon?
>
> Russ Smith
>
> ---
>
> From: "D McOwen" <dmcowen@bellsouth.net>
> To: <declan@well.com>
> Cc: <edelman@law.harvard.edu>
> Subject: RE: Ben Edelman's report on intentional errors in "whois" database
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:24:39 -0400
>
> Hi Declan, Mr Edelman,
>
> The main question I have had since this obviously fraudulent cottage
> Industry has flourished is "whois" backing and funding all of the money to
> buy and hold all these ASCII characters for ransom?
> It is also obviously infinitely deep pockets, anyone guess as to how much
> money has been thrown in to kidnap the Internet?
>
> It is sobering to finally see that maybe the focus of leaders is starting to
> shift from going after benign and for the good computer technology to the
> actual "criminal" element out there preying on the benefits of the Internet
> and computers.
>
> Dave McOwen
> http://www.freemcowen.com
>
> ---
>
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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