Re: [ga] WHOIS policy primer

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Alan and all assembly members,

  Allan, let try to look at you arguments vs Karl's and than alternative
methods of handling some of the issues or idiosyncrasies that
you propose in your arguments for a moment..
(See more below Allan's comments/arguments/statements)

Allan Liska wrote:

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> Hello Karl,
>
> [..deleted unnecessary cc's...]
> Tuesday, August 27, 2002, 7:46:00 PM, you wrote:
>
> KA> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, todd glassey wrote:
>
> >> becuase there MUST be some way of registering a data base wherein the owner
> >> operators of domains are accessible. If not WHOIS, then what?
>
> KA> That is a fallacy.
>
> KA> There is no operational reason to have publicly visible contact
> KA> information for a domain name.
>
> [..snip..]
>
> KA> The contact information for IP addresses does have operational value,
> KA> is more likely to be correct, and the lookup key (the IP address) is much
> KA> less likely to be forged than a domain name.
>
> KA> If you want to know from whence something is coming or has come, look to
> KA> the IP address then go to the IP allocation databases maintained by the
> KA> RIRs.
>
> I don't think it is a fallacy at all.  Owning/Renting a domain carries
> with it certain responsibilities.  Among those responsibilities is
> providing a contact for that domain, just as people are responsible
> for having a working postmaster@ address.

  Those responsibilities do not require, not should they that any
registrant be required to forfit his/her privacy in order to be contactable
and responsible.

>
>
> You are mistaken when you say that the owner of an IP Address has more
> operational value than a domain owner.  There are times when the owner
> of an IP Address will be different than the owner of a domain name.

  Yes there are.

>
> Shared hosting comes instantly to mind: The owner of the IP Address of
> a shared hosting account will either be the hosting company, or the
> upstream provider of the hosting company, it will not be the owner of
> the domain name.  If I needed to get in touch with the owner of a
> domain name, then looking at the owner of the IP Address for their
> shared hosting account will not provide me the necessary information.

  True, but contacting the owner of that same IP address can and often
does yield the registrant of that Domain Name from that shared hosting
account if you have the necessary legal need to contact him/her...
Otherwise, you really don't need to contact that person directly or
you can send whatever communications you may have to the
Admin E-Mail address of that Domain name to accomplish
most of the connection that you need.

>
>
> Examples of times when I have needed to get in touch with a domain
> owner:
>
> 1. Receiving virus infected e-mails from a user of a domain.  Yes, I
> can /dev/null the e-mails, but I want the account cleaned up -- the
> ISP is not going to do that, the owner of the domain will.

  Some ISP's do clean these sorts of problems up if you can clearly
show what or from where/whom that potential virus came from.
However it is not up to you to act as the Domain Name Police
for viruses...

>
> 2. DNS mis-configuration issues.  If I run across a problem with a
> domain name, I need to have an address I can contact to help correct the
> problems.

  Yes and the Admin E-Mail address is there in the Whois records for
that purpose.  Hence again needing to contact the personal and private
contact physical address, Private E-Mail address, or Personal and private
Phone # is not necessary and if by doing so, could be considered a
violation of their Privacy Rights under the Privacy act...

>
>
> 3. Spam, I always try to contact the owner of a domain before
> contacting their ISP.

  This also can be handled by contact the Admin E-Mail address or
other Admin contact information listed in the Whois record for that
Domain Name.  Hence again, the need to contact directly the
Registrant's Private  physical address, Private E-Mail address,
or Personal and private Phone # is not necessary and again could be
considered under the privacy act as a form of harassment or stalking
under the Federal statutes against stalking as Karl correctly mentioned
and has been done on many occasions...

>
>
> There are other reasons for getting in touch with a domain owner
> directly.  For this reason it is important to have valid contact
> information for that domain name.

  Well so far, you have yet to provide one that is valid...  So I
would be glad to see or have you provide these "Other Reasons"
to which you refer.

>
>
> allan
> - --
> Allan Liska
> allan@allan.org
> http://www.allan.org
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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