RE: [ga] Privacy and Whois databases

[Srikanth Narra <snarra@talus.net>]

Jeff/Peter 

Maybe I miss your point a bit. My apologies -bear with me a bit more. The
information is currently avaliable freely and instantly at finger tips for
abuse today. 

The way I see it, under my proposal, we are providing a means for a
legitimate liable business firm to come forward and protect the information
free of cost or at negligible cost to us by means of a workable business
model.

The firms will have to follow all the privacy laws that apply in real world
(in the country they are incorporated in). 

As well as - with the strides EU is making with regards to privacy and the
demands they are placing on overseas companies with regards to information
about their citizens - in return for allowing for companies to operate
smoothly in their countries and/or other wise in various trade negociations.
And possibilites of other countries taking the lead from that. (in the
countries the citizens reside as well).

The firms should be expected to have a fairly large sum of amount in escrow
- initial deposit as well as certain percentage of fees - to pay for damages
in case of violations.

Users can resort to courts if they see a preceived violation. States can
always resort to international courts/mechanisms, etc over percived
violations of their right over their citizens information.

Personally I feel a whole lot more comfortable letting the courts /
governments beat the firms into evolving in a better manner and complying
rather than giving more powers or duties to ICANN.

User benefits in different scenarios :-

From Spammers angle - The user has records of who made the request for his
information. Possibily a contract between the firm giving information and
the user who took the information - binding the information seeker - that
information would not be used for spamming and any other purposes than
stated. For a nominal amount you get information to service the person/firm
who spammed you. This in itself should make spammers task more difficult.

From Stacker angle - The instant email gives you a early alert at the least.

From Political persecution - The instant email gives the user a early
warning to seek shelter at the least. With all the holocaust and other
payments going on, I am sure the firms will do all they can - in a purdent
and legal manner with regards to the rights of country over information in
their citizens as well as avoiding becoming a accesory in persecution of a
individual.

Can you put in a easy example model which of these above would be worst of
than the users are now.

Also one thing I would like to state is with whois records - their is a huge
burden on individuals to keep the records in whois current at all times or
risk losing the domain ,possibily, under most unreasonable/filmsy of
circumstances (eg:-aolsearch.com would make a interesting example).

Sri

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams
To: Srikanth Narra
Cc: 'Peter Veeck '; 'Mark C. Langston '; 'ga@dnso.org '
Sent: 10/16/99 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ga] Privacy and Whois databases

Sri and all,

  My only comments are that this basically puts someone's privacy
up for sale at a fixed price no less.  And that if I find that any of my
regarding any of our DN is sold in this or any other manner the
responsible parties can expect to be served immediately.

Srikanth Narra wrote:

> Peter
>
> This proposal, if any thing, should act to everyone's advantage in
fighting
> spam.
>
> 1. It becomes prohibitively expensive for a spammer to get (or
revalidate
> your information if you change it) from whois database as they have to
pay
> on a domain by domain basis giving valid reason (however filmsy) for
> obtaining your details. The records of such requests exist with the
> register.
>
> 2. Becomes (hopefully) easier for registers to spot someone mining the
whois
> for spamming purposes  - as they will have to make fairly number of
> requests. At the least complicates spammer's methods to gather
information
> as they will have to use multiple identities, etc (remember verifiable
means
> of payment).
>
> (maybe we can even suggest some guidelines for registers to request
for a
> additional safety deposit from someone requesting too large a number
of
> records like couple of thousand - for legal defence or compensation
purposes
> - to be release back to requester after a certain time lapse)
>
> 3. Gives you a advance notice that someone is trying to lookup your
records
> and  why, (automatically and free of cost email to your email account
-
> unlike credit bureaus where you have to request for such information)
-
> giving you a chance to notify register if you suspect its a spammer.
or take
> precautions if its a potential stacker or political/religious
persecuter.
>
> 4. As far as change from present system - from your additional burden
> perspective - all that has changed to is, you having to pay nominal
fee
> (just like a spammer would) to enquire the spammers records. All your
legal
> and other options remain intact  - nothing else changes from present
day. A
> fair price for the little bit more sanity, peace of mind and personal
safety
> - is it not ?
>
> Best of all nobody ICANN or anyone gets additional powers or
juridiction and
> is a market based solution.
>
> comments ?
>
> Sri
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Veeck
> To: Mark C. Langston
> Cc: ga@dnso.org; Srikanth Narra
> Sent: 10/15/99 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [ga] Privacy and Whois databases
>
> "Mark C. Langston" wrote:
>
> > On 15 October 1999, Srikanth Narra <snarra@talus.net> wrote:
> >
> > >May be we can take a clue from the way credit files are kept in US
> and use
> > >the same model.
> > >
> > >The whois records stay private with register. Anyone wants to take
a
> look at
> > >them pays a nominal amount by verifiable means like credit card or
a
> check
> > >for the privileage to see the information. (that should cover the
> registers
> > >expenses for keeping the records private and to fend the queries).
>
> I use whois to fight spam abuse.  Are  Spam complaints going to be
taken
> over by
> ICANN or a subset thereof?
>
> Peter Veeck

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
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