Re: [ga] Proposal for mailing list policy

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Joe and all,

Joe Baptista wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>
> > The legal reference is French, not Canadian: Database owners may be liable
> > for injurious material contained in their publicly visible databases, even
> > if it is put in there by someone else.
> > See below for the Canadian reference.
>
> A good argument to locate the database in a free country - like t5he US of
> A.

  Agreed Joe.  So I am wondering, Harald, why you are looking at
Canadian law what so ever?  Is it that your are more familiar with
Canadian law, Harald?

>
>
> > > > Secondly, according to my information, after having gone through an
> > > > experience similar to the one we are witnessing now, the Canadian
> > > > Government took a different approach about the filing system ;>).
> > >
> > >I am afraid the reference here is lost on me.
>
> so am I - the reference to Canadian law is in error.

  I noticed this as well, Joe.  Glad you reminded everyone here.

>
>
> > One nice link is
> > http://www.ipc.on.ca/web_site.eng/locating/orders-m/M-618.htm and
> > http://www.ipc.on.ca/web_site.eng/locating/orders-m/m-947.htm, since this
> > appears to be a set of rulings from the Information and Privacy
> > Commissioner of Ontario.
> > (the appellant in the second case is not identified)
>
> Orders IPC orders M-618 and M-947 have nothing to do with censorship or
> freedom of information.  Your reaching Harald.

  I called my legal council on this as well.  They concur with you Joe.

>
>
> > Briefly, Baptista and another person bombarded Canadian government agencies
> > with requests for information in such numbers that the requests, if
> > satisfied, would have caused all government officials to be busy preparing
> > information for him. The rules were changed afterwards because of this.
>
> Incorrect observation of the history here.  First of all, we were
> sucessful in our freedom of information requests.  The action happened
> over a three year period and during that period two people (of
> which I was one) increased the administrative burden on the governments
> Freedom of Information processes in excess of 300%.  The IPC itself had to
> hire more people to meet the demand.  The cost to the system from my work
> varies from $100 to $500 million per year.
>
> The rules had to be changed.  The government had only two options,
> A) close down the system and denie everyone access, or open up the system
> and treat information processing as an asset and put the whole sheebang
> online.  They choose to deny information access, and now a few years later
> - everyone in Canada is  screaming bloody murder.

  And as I understand it, the Canadian government is beginning to see
the error in their ways of late.

>
>
> Certainly the press is no longer happy.

  I am sure this is true.  The press loves some nice dirt to write about.
Especially government Dirt.

>
>
> >
> > I particularly like the quote from Baptista in M-618:
> >
> > "My interest in freedom of information legislation has a singular intent. I
> > have made it very clear to the Commission and any other party that my
> > purpose is the creation of an administrative burden for the Commission and
> > related government agencies"
>
> Yes - that is correct.  The quote was used by commissioner Wight to
> rationalize his decision - and I certainly admit to having provided it to
> him to assist in the job.  Mr. Wight disappeared shortly after his ruling
> and is now ruling on license plates in the automobile department.  This
> was a step down in the corporate ladder of government.

  >;)  A shame I am sure!  But likely well deserved.

>
>
> The goal was to close down the Canadian FOI access to the general
> public.  That's about the only simularity these events have to ICANN.  The
> way it works Harald is that in a free information society a government
> entity which is non responsive - or unable to meet demand for information
> becomes obsolete.  That was my goal in FOI and I succeeded.  The same
> theory applies to icann in practice.

  Interesting....

>
>
> Regards
> Joe Baptista

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
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