Re: [ga] Registration process suggestion

[DillonM0081@aol.com]

Roeland,

  Isn't this really besides the point given recent events with respect
to act and evidence provide (Huge amounts) by Bob Davis
and James Touton  via Haralds recent post: 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc03/msg01437.html ?
Sure seems like it to me.  That is just MHO, maybe I am wrong.

Dillon Marshall Esq.

In a message dated 2/14/00 11:31:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, rmeyer@mhsc.com 
writes:

<< > From: owner-ga@dnso.org [mailto:owner-ga@dnso.org]On Behalf Of Dave
 > Crocker
 > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 1:38 PM
 >
 > At 05:15 PM 2/10/2000 -0800, Roeland M.J. Meyer wrote:
 > > > From: owner-ga@dnso.org On Behalf Of Dave Crocker
 
 > > > Although the formal cert developers understand the issue of
 > certs needing
 > > > to be defined carefully, so that different criteria are applied in
 > > > assigning different kinds of certs, there is no large scale use
 > > > of certs as a basis for distinguishing individuals.
 > >
 > >Actually, there is, if you go to the Thawte web-site. The question is if
 >
 > I did not say that no mechanisms or services existed.  I said
 > there was no
 > large-scale USE.
 
 Without marketing/demographics data, which neither of us are either privy to
 (or are free to publish) your statement is unsupported. I still maintain
 that it is false (understood - such statement is equally unsupported).
 However, you might try Forrester's.
 
 >  In this case, large-scale refers both to numbers and
 > diversity of the user base.  Thawte is fine for geeks, but the entire
 > system (of which Thawte is a part) is not viable for typical,
 > non-technical
 > users.  It is far to complicated.
 
 I think that Thawte is doing an admirable job in end-user education. Moreso
 than Verisign is. It is a complex topic.
 
 > > > For that matter, there is no large scale use of certs.
 > >
 > >Go to ANY eCommerce web-site and you will find an SSL cert, at least one.
 > >You will also, on many of them, find TLS capability.
 >
 > Such certs are, at most, for the vendor.  Not the consumer.  A
 > registration/voting system as being discussed here needs persona- (not
 > email-) based certs for the users, not the providers.
 
 I agree with the non-email requirement (email vs persona). It is also a
 problem with PGP. PGP only secures the individual message. With a PKI,
 it -might- also provide verification of the end-points of a communique.
 However, verifying the source is light-years removed from verifying the
 identity of the source. One can use PGP and still remain anonymous. What's
 missing here is a determination of what an identity is defined as.
 
 > > > For that matter, there is no large scale use of open, encrypton-based
 > > > authentication services.
 > >
 > >This is true, iff you emphasize the term "open".
 >
 > That is exactly the point.  ICANN participation is open.
 
 ... apples and oranges, Dave. ICANN is not a technology and authentication
 services are not a would-be governance organization.
 
 > > > And that's the problem.  All of this technology-iriented
 > discussion, for
 > > > solving the registration problem, is being conducted without
 > attending to
 > > > the raw fact that the technology has not already been deployed
 > > > and used on very wide scale.
 > >
 > >This is false (see above).
 >
 > It is not false.  (See above.)
 
 We disagree?!?!? Nahhhh....
 
 > > > PGP advocates might disagree about large scale authentication
 > activities,
 > > > but that is an example of the problem, rather than a counter
 > to it.  Both
 > > > PGP and S/Mime are still human factors problems for average users.
 > >
 > >and here is another problem that I can agree with. PGP needs a PKI and is
 > >not server-based. SSL/TLS is server-based, but you have to roll your own
 >
 > Modern PGP implementations use servers that are, effectively, the same as
 > PKI servers.
 
 I was speaking more towards TLS, in conjunction with a CSP.
 
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