Re: [ga] Re: Task Force appointees, MOTION

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Eric and all assembly members,

  You Eric need to understand that this history is exactly why we
need not repeat past mistakes.  It was also over 200 years ago
for the most part as well.  Ergo you have argued yourself in
a circle.  If we don't learn from the mistakes from history
than we are doomed to repeat them.  I for one have learned
from them Eric.  Have you?  It is obvious that Joop has,
amongst many others.

  So please Eric, please don't try to prod us into again making the
mistakes of the past in the present.  It is harmful to all concerned...

  I think that sums this up.

Eric Dierker wrote:

> Joop and Jeff,
>
> You two are great contributors and I thank you both, but;
>
> You guys do not get the point that ICANN is consensus driven not democratic.
> This is very standard for the beginning of any authority.  The USA was not
> founded democratically but by consensus, then it later grew to be democratic
> (actually Republican, read Plato's Republic) and then it took over 100 years to
> give most adults the right to vote.  Right now we are in a developing consensus
> stage.  I certainly hope that within a few years we are totally globally
> democratic, and that is why we must continue to stress your point of view, but
> not block progress by it.
>
> I also note that there is some confusion as to voting in some of the other posts
> on this thread.  The request goes to the NC and there they do vote.  Although
> technically I think the vote is really just a tool to determine consensus and
> note it must be public.
>
> Roberts rules of order work for group voting, best practices work for consensus.
> It is good to note that both can be determined by apathy.
>
> Joops concern over possible good and bad appointees can be handled by committee
> and sublists.
>
> If we all get on the same page and realize that in no founding paper is the term
> democratically elected from the GA mentioned we can accomplish consensus much
> quicker.  Then maybe we can all get together and get that term in place.
>
> May goodness come to each of you all the days of your life.
>
> Eric
>
> Joop Teernstra wrote:
>
> > On 21:55 18/10/01 +0200, Marc Schneiders said:
> > >On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, at 15:15 [=GMT-0400], Jonathan Weinberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> > > > > I agree on the need to move quickly, and also believe that, although
> > > > > sometimes in the past we went through elections, this was not formally
> > > > > necessary.
> > > > > However, I would like to see a show of hands in favour of David by GA
> > > > > members, I believe that this show of support will psychologically
> > > ease his
> > > > > task, and be a record for the future.
> > > > > May I start with showing my agreement with the choice of person, and
> > > invite
> > > > > some "me too" messages from GA members?
> > > >
> > > >       I think David will be an excellent representative to this TF.
> > > >
> > >
> > >So do I.
> >
> > Contrary to the previous speakers and with my apologies to David, wich whom
> > I will have to deal peacefully on the InternetNZ Council,  I must note my
> > reservations about the procedure which is used to propel David Farrar to
> > the position of "representative of the GA" on this very sensitive task force.
> >
> > The Chair appoints: does this set a precedent? There are no rules about
> > what a Chair of the GA can do and cannot do.
> >
> > It is one of the problems of cyber democracy that we run the risk of
> > nominating and electing people that we barely know.
> > (nothing personal Danny)
> > How well do you really know the Chair that you have so blithely elected?
> > What if some future trusted nominator of a Chair is going to be mistaken in
> > his judgement and we get a Chair who is not what he seems?
> >
> > Then (sorry Roberto) : is this method of open outcry of support appropriate
> > and democratic? Does this not disadvantage voters who may feel
> > uncomfortable with what is happening on principle, but do not want to be
> > seen as spoilers by saying so?
> > Is this not why democratic systems have secret ballots?
> >
> > I would like to see a proper election of one of all the candidates, so that
> > *all* GA voters get their say on who is going to represent them on this
> > task force.
> >
> > MOTION to the Chair: please do not be rushed by any imposed deadlines but
> > take the time for a proper election.
> > If the GA is not ready, then the Task Force should wait. Restructuring of
> > ICANN and giving a mandate for a new rewrite of the ICANN bylaws is too
> > important.
> >
> > --Joop
> >
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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