Re: [Re: [Re: [ga] WLS Status Report]]

[Loren Stocker <loren@800.net>]

Ross,

You know I'm dead set against WLS. I'm referring to Geroge's comment that the
report was, "giving undue weight to Verisign's statements that it is suffering
due to "add storms." 

I care that this "storm" is fixed in such a way that we all have a fair
chance; that we can all participate; that we can actully win! Having
competitive Registrars go after domains is way, not WLS. I think that we
agree, Ross. 

Best, Loren


"Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com> wrote:
But Loren, isn't the open market the best place to address these needs?

The registry need continue to be a supplier of database and administrative
services that provides raw infrastructure to registrars - who beat the crap
out of each other in the marketplace in an attempt to walk away with the
most dollars. This is best accomplished through providing services that
people need.

It is about people, but its also about ensuring that these people get a
chance at the best products and services rather than a presupposed notion
about what the best product and service is right now. This is all about
allowing evolution and darwinism in the open market to deal with the
ineffeciencies - which get you the best of breed solution that you are
looking for.

-rwr

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren Stocker" <loren@800.net>
To: "Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com>; <ga@dnso.org>;
<discuss-list@opensrs.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: [ga] WLS Status Report]


George,

And I oppose.

It's not that your comments are way off base but that this deletion mess has
a
great effect on new Subscribers! Why can't it be fixed with Subscribers in
mind? This is not an irrelevent issue.

You are ALL too hung on "periods" and "process." It's PEOPLE, real live
PEOPLE
who are victims here. It was Elliot Noss of Tucows who has proposed a fix
that
would give PEOPLE a greater chance of success -- while fixing the "add
storm"
situation.

Frankly, I don't care about Verisign's load either. This is NOT about
Verisign's load. It is and should be about everyones fair chance to get a
domain. Think Hockey! Fair, fast, and efficient.

Best, Loren
www.evil.biz!



"Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com> wrote:
[cc'ed to nc-transfer@dnso.org]

George,

I completely agree with your remarks in this regard. As previously
mentioned, the community has really been dealing with two separate issues
here;

    1.) Verisign's initial failure to deal with registration activity
generated by registrars [the ensuing arguement boiled down to whether or not
the registrar behavior was appropriate or whether Verisign was failing to
live up to its obligations under the registry contract with ICANN and the
registrars. Tucows still contends that the batch pool system implemented by
Verisign represents an arbitrary establishment of policy contrary to the
FCFS methodology that was previously in place and that in fact, Verisign has
an obligation to establish and maintain systems infrastructure commensurate
with, and capable of dealing with the policy implications of their contract.
Verisign contents that registrars are engaging in an illegitimate activity
that they therefore should not support.]

    2.) The introduction of a new (monopoly) registry service that would
affect (adversely or positively, I leave it to the reader to determine which
theology they prescribe to) the (pre-)existing market for services.

I recommend that the passage below be  removed[1] from the final report
unless it can be clearly established that a) registrars were engaging in
illegitimate behaviour, or conversely, b) that Verisign did not live up to
their contractual obligations and provide the infrastructure necessary to
support the existing policy instead of arbitrarily establishing new policy
that lead to the batch pool methodology.

To your second point concerning the fast-track recommendation, it is my
understanding that this will consist of a policy analysis (and
recommendations) concerning standardizing the process of deletion and
re-registration (and other related policy issues.) Tucows fully supports
this approach provided that it is not inconsistent with the views that have
been widely held as being "appropriate practice" over the last few years
(ie - specific and finite period during which a domain name must be deleted
by a registrar after it expires, safeguards for registrants, re-registration
pricing equivalent to original registration pricing, FCFS, etc.)

-rwr

[1]The statements provided in bullet five and six of this section tend to
support the conclusion that this entire should be removed, perhaps with the
exception as being a historical note (which, if this is the case, the
passage need be reworded to function as a statement of fact.)


----- Original Message -----
From: "George Kirikos" <gkirikos@yahoo.com>
To: <ga@dnso.org>; <discuss-list@opensrs.org>
Cc: <mcade@att.com>; <stahura@enom.com>; <cclark@dotster.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:28 PM
Subject: [ga] WLS Status Report


Hello,

http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/nc-transfer/Arc00/msg00236.html

has an update by the DNSO Transfers Task Force (TF) chair, and makes
excellent reading (unless you happen to work for VGRS).

Essentially, after reviewing everything, the task force is against WLS,
as expected.

I would have to point out, though, that the TF is giving undue weight
to Verisign's statements that it is suffering due to "add storms", and
I object to its inclusion (or at least one should point out the counter
arguments, for balance). The TF writes:

"1. It was acknowledged that present practices of competitive services
result in “add storms” which are affecting the registry’s services, and
according to the registry, adding significant costs for support of all
the attempts to “grab” names but without resulting in transactions
which provide revenue to the registry." (III.1)

I'd like to remind people that by Verisign's own admissions, at:

http://www.verisign-grs.com/wls_responses.pdf

In the answer to B.1:

"The WLS is not intended or designed to deal with deleted
registrations nor has VGRS ever made that claim."

and in reply to B.2.

"registry load is no longer an issue. The multiple pools and rate
limiting technology have solved that problem."

I repeat "registry load is no longer an issue."!!

Thus, I think the Task Force should remove any references to these
technical issues from their report, or note that they do not apply. WLS
should be treated as a BUSINESS PROPOSAL for a new MONOPOLY SERVICE at
the registry level, and it should be delinked from any discussion over
technical concerns. Any "technical" concerns are self-serving fiction
and misinformation by Verisign.  "Registry load is no longer an issue"
and "solved that problem" cannot be more clear. "Significant costs" is
entirely inappropriate language, as VGRS has never said what those
costs are, and has refused to provide any data whatsoever to backup
their misinformation. To some people, $5,000 or $10,000/yr is
"significant". If anyone but Arthur Andersen were to do a cost
accounting, the solution to the technical problems was likely a minimal
expenditure, and insignificant. I remind folks that CIRA in Canada
handled similar domain deletions (TBR names) without a cost increase of
any kind, and could handle the spike in traffic without hiccups. VGRS
is equally capable. I'm sure CIRA would gladly take the job, for $180
million/yr, if VGRS can't stomach the job...

Also, I think given the findings by the task force, full consensus
process should be invoked (or just reject WLS outright), given the harm
to numerous parties, and WLS could not and should not be fast-tracked.
As a policy concern for any new registry offering, only products that
would not unduly harm existing market participants should ever be
fast-tracked. I'm not sure why the TF hesitated in this regard in the
report.

Will there be more teleconferences before the coming ICANN meeting, to
iron out outstanding issues? (the possibility of 2 more had been
mentioned)

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
http://www.kirikos.com/


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