Re: [ga] Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] WLS proposal

[Marc Schneiders <marc@fuchsia.bijt.net>]

On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, at 02:32 [=GMT+0100], Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:

> >From: "Marc Schneiders" <marc@fuchsia.bijt.net>
> >To: "Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond" <ocl@gih.com>
> >Cc: <ga@dnso.org>; <james.love@cptech.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 4:41 PM
> >Subject: Re: [ga] Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] WLS proposal
>
>
> > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, at 15:26 [=GMT+0100], Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
> wrote:
> >
> > > Why is "expiry" information published and openly accessed by the rest of
> the
> > > world in the WHOIS database ? Does this help anybody apart from domain
> > > name hoarders/pirates/speculators ?
> >
> > Yes, people that want to register a domain that expires to use it.
>
> As Gary Osbourne has already mentioned, if I had a gee-whizz great idea
> for a Web site,

Domains are used for other things than websites.

> I would not be waiting for a domain to expire, to implement
> the idea.

If you have a company called wawawaw, founded by your grandfather in 1947,
you very much are waiting for wawawaw.com being released. Some entities
already have a name. Life does not start with ideas to implement.
Certainly not if it is older than the Net.

> Nobody waits for domains to expire to use them - nobody, apart
> from those people that want to make money from re-selling the domain
> at a premium.

See above.

> Besides, since the vast majority of domains are renewed,
> you'd have a bigger chance of winning a million dollars at the state lottery
> than to wait for a domain to expire and not be renewed by its owner.

Recently tens of thousands domains are not renewed monthly. A fact.

> > > 5. if the domain name holder prefers not to renew the domain, the
> domain's
> > > details are erased from the database altogether, and the domain falls
> into
> > > obscurity. Anybody could re-register it again, but they first need to
> find
> > > out
> > > if it exists, and that involves a lot of work.
> >
> > Not at all. Scripts, cron.
>
> Scripts & Cron are fine - but can you imagine how many scripts and
> cron jobs would have to be run to check for all domain names that might
> have expired?

Obviously not all. Those that are potentially worth the efforts.

[...]

> > > Remember that automatic data
> > > mining of the WHOIS database contradicts the AUP of the registrar.
> >
> > Mining is about getting email addresses for spam. Trying to find out about
> > a domain or a limited set of domains is not.
>
> Data Mining is anything to do with automated scanning of a database,
> and the use of intelligent automated agents to make sense of it, and
> process it into information that will be useful to a specific purpose,
> whether it is for spamming, or registering expired domains.

I will not quote the whole text, but this is _not_ what the messages
attached to the results of whois queries say. No spam, no high volume, and
no purposes other than "obtaining information about or related to a domain
name registration record". This means you cannot use it to set up a list
of first names in common use, e.g.

> > Also, trying to grab a released domain does not operate over whois,
> > obviously. One just tries to register is every so often. So your plan will
> > only increase the hammering on the registry...
>
> See "Core Wars", above. They are breaking the Registry's AUP if
> they do such a thing,

Only when they go beyond the limit set.

> and some kind of rule, similar to those rules
> passed about SPAM e-mails, should be drafted.

These are already there. It is unclear whether they function sufficiently.
We are not told about problems during the rush hour anymore. So perhaps
they do.

> > > How much more difficult can it be than this ?
> > > It is the fairest way to run the DNS.
> >
> > It is merely a variant of 'security by obscurity'. What is worse: big
> > players can work around your scheme (by setting up a shaddow whois for
> > interesting domains _with_ expiry dates); ordinary users of domain names
> > cannot. Your plan will increase the hold of speculators on names.
>
> If mining the WHOIS database breaks AUP guidelines, then yes, they
> could set-up a shadow whois for interesting domains with expiry dates.
> But then, there is the issue of cost - at the end of the day, does it make
> business sense to go through so much pain and hardship, just to get hold
> of a particular domain, bearing in mind that we have passed the peak
> of crazyness, and today, you'd be hard-pressed to find a punter that will
> want a domain name so badly that they'll pay millions...

The point here is not whether it pays, but whether it will happen. People
do foolish investments. A lot of people lost money on domain name
speculation.

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