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Re: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
James and all,
James Seng wrote:
> In IETF, we work on running codes and rough consensus.
As a participating IETF member for a number of years now,
I don't know of any "Running Code" that the IETF has actually
created to date. Perhaps you could point some of that
actual IETF created code out? >;)
Rough consensus means absolutely nothing. Never has.
>
>
> We dont vote and we dont expect 100% consensus.
That's right. Yet unless it is measured, consensus cannot
actually exist. it is therefore a guess, nothing more.
100%/unanimous consensus rarely ever occurs.
And I have never suggested that any considered policy or
RFC have 100%/unanimous consensus either!
Don't like it, too bad also! >;) But it is clear
that the stakeholders/users don't like it in increasing
numbers. So you had better get used to liking change,
because it has arrived. And if you don't like that, to bad
also! >;)
>
>
> Dont like it? Too bad.
>
> -James Seng
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "James Seng" <jseng@pobox.org.sg>
> Cc: <richard.hill@itu.int>; "General Assembly of the DNSO" <ga@dnso.org>;
> "Don Evans" <DEvans@doc.gov>; "Nancy J. Victory" <nvictory@ntia.doc.gov>;
> "cathy Handley" <chandley@ntia.doc.gov>; "Clyde Ensslin"
> <censslin@ntia.doc.gov>; "francis gurry" <francis.gurry@wipo.int>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
>
> > James and all assembly members, stakeholders or other interested parties,
> >
> > James Seng wrote:
> >
> > > IDNA has went thru the working group last call, and also IETF wide last
> > > call. The co-chairs has already submit it to the IESG for consideration
> for
> > > publication as RFC.
> > > So as far as "rough consensus" is concern, we are already done with
> that.
> >
> > Well "Rough Consensus" is no consensus at all. It is simply a guess.
> > This of course is one of several problems that the IETF/IAB have,
> > and have had for some time now. None the less any kind of closed
> > consensus without the vote of the stakeholders/users to which such
> > a possible RFC (Request for comments) is not legitimate to the
> > broad internet stakeholder/user community...
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The latest revision includes some changes requested by the IESG. I
> suspect
> > > there will be one (or two) more revision before it is finalized.
> > >
> > > -James Seng
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > > To: <richard.hill@itu.int>
> > > Cc: "General Assembly of the DNSO" <ga@dnso.org>; "Don Evans"
> > > <DEvans@doc.gov>; "Nancy J. Victory" <nvictory@ntia.doc.gov>; "cathy
> > > Handley" <chandley@ntia.doc.gov>; "Clyde Ensslin"
> <censslin@ntia.doc.gov>;
> > > "francis gurry" <francis.gurry@wipo.int>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
> > >
> > > > Richard,
> > > >
> > > > Ok thank you for this frank and more honest reply, Richard.
> > > > You could have said most of this in you first response however.
> > > >
> > > > The only reference that Danny Younger pointed out to me,
> > > > which I had read some time ago now and had forgotten about
> > > > from the IETF is a "Memo". See:
> > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idn-idna-13.txt
> > > > Interesting that it is dated october 4th of this year though...
> > > > Hence, hardly a consensus document!
> > > >
> > > > richard.hill@itu.int wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you do a search on the IETF site, you will find lots of
> references to
> > > > > IDN. It is my understanding that the resolution mentioned in the
> press
> > > > > release refers to the IETF work on IDN. I agree that the press
> release
> > > does
> > > > > not say that. I am not evading your answers, I simply do not have
> the
> > > > > information required to answer them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Richard
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > Richard Hill
> > > > > Counsellor, ITU-T SG2
> > > > > International Telecommunication Union
> > > > > Place des Nations
> > > > > CH-1211 Geneva 20
> > > > > Switzerland
> > > > > tel: +41 22 730 5887
> > > > > FAX: +41 22 730 5853
> > > > > Email: richard.hill@itu.int
> > > > > Study Group 2 email: tsbsg2@itu.int
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, 14 October 2002 23:05
> > > > > > To: richard.hill@itu.int
> > > > > > Cc: alexander@svensson.de; ga@dnso.org;
> > > > > > atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de;
> > > > > > francis gurry; Don Evans; Nancy J. Victory; cathy Handley; Clyde
> > > > > > Ensslin; atlarge discuss list
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard and all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > richard.hill@itu.int wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please note that the resolution refers to
> > > > > > "Internationalized Domain Names
> > > > > > > (IDN)", not to "international" domain names.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ah I see. Ok. Well none the less this did not answer my
> questions
> > > > > > regarding either "Internationalized Domain Names (IDN)" or
> > > > > > "International Domain Names" to you Richard. Hence it would
> > > > > > seem that you are evading answering the questions I put to you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You'll have to address your questions to the people who defined
> > > > > > > "Internationalized Domain Names (IDN)". I guess that is
> > > > > > IETF, but I may be
> > > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The IETF as far as I am aware, does not have any such
> distinction
> > > > > > regarding Domain Names in any policy statement or documentation.
> > > > > > As this press release was an ITU press release, and therefore a
> ITU
> > > > > > initiative, it would seem appropriate and reasonable that the ITU
> > > > > > or yourself could or should address the questions I ask. There
> is
> > > > > > no indication or language in the press release indicating that
> > > > > > the IETF made or has made such a designation as stated
> > > > > > in the ITU press release.
> > > > > > See the ITU press release again at:
> > > > > > http://www.itu.int/newsroom/pp02/Highlights/1010.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My questions rephrased to you Richard are as follows:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard, can you explain or define the difference between
> > > > > > and Internationalized Domain Name "IDN" and a "General
> > > > > > Domain Name"? Would for instance fuubar.co.uk be an
> > > > > > Internationalized Domain Name or not? Or would foobar.net
> > > > > > or foobar.org be Internationalized domain names or not? Would
> > > > > > for instance foobar.eu be an internationalized Domain Name?
> > > > > > And, if only Domains in .INT are international Domain Names, are
> all
> > > > > > other domains in other name spaces or TLD's, not
> internationalized?
> > > > > > Please elaborate in your answer...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Richard
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > > Richard Hill
> > > > > > > Counsellor, ITU-T SG2
> > > > > > > International Telecommunication Union
> > > > > > > Place des Nations
> > > > > > > CH-1211 Geneva 20
> > > > > > > Switzerland
> > > > > > > tel: +41 22 730 5887
> > > > > > > FAX: +41 22 730 5853
> > > > > > > Email: richard.hill@itu.int
> > > > > > > Study Group 2 email: tsbsg2@itu.int
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, 14 October 2002 12:31
> > > > > > > > To: richard.hill@itu.int
> > > > > > > > Cc: alexander@svensson.de; ga@dnso.org; Don Evans; cathy
> > > > > > > > Handley; Nancy
> > > > > > > > J. Victory; Clyde Ensslin; atlarge discuss list; francis gurry
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Richard and all assembly members, stakeholders or other
> > > > > > > > interested parties,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you Richard for this interesting update to ITU's IDN
> > > > > > > > resolution.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This update brings up some interesting questions that were
> > > > > > > > not addressed
> > > > > > > > in this ITU IDN resolution.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Richard, can you explain or define the difference between
> > > > > > > > and International
> > > > > > > > Domain Name and a "General Domain Name"?
> > > > > > > > Would for instance fuubar.co.uk be and international Domain
> Name
> > > > > > > > or not? Or would foobar.net or foobar.org be an
> > > > > > > > international domain names
> > > > > > > > or not? Would for instance foobar.eu be an international
> > > > > > Domain Name?
> > > > > > > > And, if only Domains in .INT are international Domain
> > > > > > Names, are all
> > > > > > > > other domains in other name spaces or TLD's, not
> international?
> > > > > > > > Please elaborate in your answer...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > richard.hill@itu.int wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please note that the title of the ITU Press highlight has
> > > > > > > > been corrected.
> > > > > > > > > It now reads:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Internet names: a matter for both government and
> > > > > > private sector"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The second sentence has also been corrected, it reads:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "This resolution aims at helping promote the role of Member
> > > > > > > > States in the
> > > > > > > > > internationalization of domain names and addresses of their
> > > > > > > > respective
> > > > > > > > > languages"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also please note that this Press highlight refers to a
> > > > > > > > resolution concerning
> > > > > > > > > Internationalized Domain Names (IDN) specifically and not
> > > > > > > > domain names in
> > > > > > > > > general.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The corrected press highlight is at:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.itu.int/newsroom/pp02/Highlights/1010.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > > Richard
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > Richard Hill
> > > > > > > > > Counsellor, ITU-T SG2
> > > > > > > > > International Telecommunication Union
> > > > > > > > > Place des Nations
> > > > > > > > > CH-1211 Geneva 20
> > > > > > > > > Switzerland
> > > > > > > > > tel: +41 22 730 5887
> > > > > > > > > FAX: +41 22 730 5853
> > > > > > > > > Email: richard.hill@itu.int
> > > > > > > > > Study Group 2 email: tsbsg2@itu.int
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Alexander Svensson [mailto:alexander@svensson.de]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, 11 October 2002 21:35
> > > > > > > > > > To: DNSO General Assembly
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ga] FYI: ITU press release on IDN resolution
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >ITU stakes claim on Internet names
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >The Working Group of the Plenary approved a resolution on
> > > > > > > > > > the management
> > > > > > > > > > >of internationalized multilingual domain names. This
> > > > > > > > > > resolution aims at
> > > > > > > > > > >promoting the role of Member States in the
> > > > > > > > > > internationalization of domain
> > > > > > > > > > >names and addresses of their respective languages. This
> will
> > > > > > > > > > be increasingly
> > > > > > > > > > >important in the coming years as a majority of Internet
> > > > > > > > > > users is expected
> > > > > > > > > > >to prefer to conduct online activities in their own
> > > > > > > > > > language. It is also
> > > > > > > > > > >important because the current Domain Names System (DNS)
> > > > > > > > > > mapping does not
> > > > > > > > > > >reflect the growing language needs of all. The resolution
> > > > > > > > > > stresses that
> > > > > > > > > > >the registration and allocation of Internet domain names
> and
> > > > > > > > > > addresses
> > > > > > > > > > >should reflect the geographical and functional nature of
> the
> > > > > > > > > > Internet with
> > > > > > > > > > >an equitable balance of interests of all stakeholders. It
> > > > > > > > > > also emphasizes
> > > > > > > > > > >that the non-discriminatory access to Internet domain
> names
> > > > > > > > > > and addresses,
> > > > > > > > > > >and more generally to the Internet, should be available
> to
> > > > > > > > > > all citizens
> > > > > > > > > > >and that the management of Internet Domain Names and
> > > > > > > > addresses is of
> > > > > > > > > > >concern to both governments and the private sector. It
> also
> > > > > > > > > > reiterates
> > > > > > > > > > >the need to fully maintain country code numbering plans
> and
> > > > > > > > > > addresses as
> > > > > > > > > > >in ITU-T recommendation E.164 which defines the
> > > > > > > > international public
> > > > > > > > > > >telecommunication numbering plan. Under this resolution,
> > > > > > > > ITU will be
> > > > > > > > > > >providing assistance to its Member States to promote the
> use
> > > > > > > > > > of their
> > > > > > > > > > >languages for domain names and addresses and will
> > > > > > > > cooperate with the
> > > > > > > > > > >World Intellectual Property Organization whose role
> includes
> > > > > > > > > > protection
> > > > > > > > > > >against misuse of intellectual property rights in the use
> of
> > > > > > > > > > countries'
> > > > > > > > > > >languages for domain names and addresses.
> > > > > > > > > > (http://www.itu.int/newsroom/pp02/Highlights/1010.html)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > > /// Alexander
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders
> strong!)
> > > > > > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > > > > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > > > > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > > > > > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > > > > > > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > > > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > > > > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > > > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> >
> >
Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
--
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