Re: [ga] Let build on Richard Lindsay's reply

["J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>]

Dear Richard,
I would be interested in digging a little bit more in
your kind response. I do think that kind of exchange
might really help.

At 11:30 03/02/03, Richard Lindsay wrote:
<snip>
>I am also possibly in your view part of the problem
>with ICANN, where I see myself as part of the solution
>you mention.

I would be interested in this. I suppose this is because
you are a service provider - while others are first product
providers. The information society is something we leave
with for 5000 years. Abraham go a few infos we still learn
today. But the e-network supported society needs
e-network *services*.


>  But our purposes and methods, may be
>different, but as long as we have the same dream,
>perhaps we can work together.

I am sure we can. Actually I think that we all want the
same thing. But we parted in 1984, not because we opposed,
but because we followed our different paths and experiences.
Today we need to merge again and share our experiences
in a real test bed. To learn what is feasible. We have
started this test bed (dot-root) and we look for people
wanting to contribute one or two name server and some
competences. And experienced people to share in its
steering committee.

>  I have worked with
>the ICANN process in a way that has benefited my
>company, certainly, we are a good company, we make
>our investments pay.   GMO is now a registrar, and
>own a potentially valuable share in Afilias - an
>investment I point out that right now is not paying
>the way quite yet :-(

I would be interested in teaming with you on a project.
This has potential return: we met through GA let make it
part of the ICANN GMO's ROI :-)

>While this has helped build our ISP business, in return,
>I have had my company investing in my participation in ICANN.
>More importantly I invest a lot of my own personal time!  I
>have served on the original Names Council (that was a major
>pain I will freely admit, you guys remember how screwed
>up that meeting in 1999 in San Jose don't you?) have
>worked to help establish a registrar constituency,
>and helped just a bit to establish a non-Verisign
>dominated gTLD registry constituency.  I have spent
>hundreds of hours on teleconferences, 90 percent of which
>were held between the hours of 12 midnight and 3 am :-(

Welcome in the ICANN night slaves club :-)

>I think you also make a point, although I don't know
>if you intended this - if not, sorry, but I read this
>and had this idea...  If you equate the GA with the
>importance that the mob had say in French history in
>the 1800's, than there is a valid purpose that the
>GA serves.

Yes. The internet is technically a crowd. The GA IMHO
acts as a mob, at least as a place of unrest and action.
This may also be a wavelength against a user's tide. GA
should act as an early warning system if it had been
better managed by "ICANN" (let accept that this is
complex and ICANN has not the proper resources for
crowd management :-) Yet let remember what Joe Sims
tried to do here. I do not like what Joe is doing, but he
tries hard.

>Although I may not be part of the mob,
>as long as I understand the concerns, and am able to
>communicate with the key people that make sense, the
>real important changes can be effected.

Being part of the mob or not is personal. The cousin
of the King was the mob leader in France. ... The important
point is to keep oneself abreast of the users feelings.

>Anyway Jefsey, I thank you for this thoughtful and
>very well written post.  I may (or may not) share
>your view of Afilias, which is something to me as a very
>positive contribution to the global Internet, and
>something as well that I am extremely proud of!

I probably poorly experessed myself? I meant to say that
Afilias was an interesting Insight into our brave new world.

>I think
>the ICANN process could learn something from Afilias,

and that may be ICANN process could learn somthing form
it if you explained us. I am fascinated by the idea that the
Directors do not know more than outsiders (this is probably
something which would interest Karl) and that you concert.
If this is done positively, there is certainly an interesting
recepee.

jfc

>but I will be the first to say it is an easy process to
>manager, not have we not made mistakes (in any Internet
>Experiment!)
>
>Best regards,
>Richard
>
>PS:  I really agree with your assessment of Vint Cerf,
>very well done Vint, I don't know how you do it sometime!
>ICANN is a much more fun place with your presence leading
>the board!
>
>PPS:  Jefsey or anyone else, I also admit my own
>shortcomings as a technical manager, if you would like
>to share success stories, or to swap nightmare stories,
>please feel free to email me!  I am always looking for
>new places to learn!
>
>J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:
>
>>Dear Richard,
>>All of us considered to leave the GA at some time. But what is (was) 
>>interesting is it is a forum where the noise gives indications on the 
>>governance's mood and ideas (the sparks in a volcano's smoke). Not to do 
>>it would be like in a democracy not to care about street mobs. One who 
>>understood it very well and who is impressing by his presence on this GA 
>>is Vint Cerf.
>>IMHO it underlines we will not be able to spare a complete review of the 
>>whole internet (small "i") society (the human society network assessing 
>>its e-support). The current model (or lack of model) leaks from every 
>>part of its old rusty hull. Let be candid should the telephone core 
>>system get 97.5% wrong service calls, could any teenager stop it in 
>>places and cost billions to users at whim, should it mostly ring for 
>>undesired marketing calls in foreign language but vivid erotic sounds, 
>>etc. would we accept it?
>>What is technically true, is also societally true (economic model, 
>>addressing management, digital divide) and politically true (governance, 
>>human relations, etc.).
>>Everyone tries to improve in a bottom-up way, and those in charge of 
>>something resolve to top-down patches based on whatever experience is at 
>>hand (like ICANN tries to build on Jon Postel's experience in managing in 
>>a quite opposite environment - after one opposed the evolutions he 
>>wanted). One also try to patch foreign solutions - like creating the 
>>"Registrars industry" like a pyramidal sales/support force - what freeze 
>>their normal evolution in a different environment from what their basic 
>>concepts apply (what is the future of the Registrars except surviving 
>>with the status quo).
>>This is a cyberworld. Cybernetics technically is the art of improving 
>>efficiency in using an analog thinking based on models built from 
>>feed-backs. The cyberspace is the virtual place where we do not know 
>>things and people by direct contact but from relational feed-back 
>>experience. You do not know me except by e-mail, responding your e-mail. 
>>I could be a machine, a man or a woman, a 20 or a 90 years old person, an 
>>alias of your direct assistant, etc. We (mankind) have some experience of 
>>that but not with that interactivity speed, not at this scale and with 
>>this diversity and not for everyone.
>>IMHO the modeling we lack is global: as much technical, as societal and 
>>as political. I am certainly biased since as a French I have a Cartesian 
>>approach leading me to consider a synthetic global and logical model 
>>continuity, somewhat opposed to the multiple case short term solutions we 
>>commonly use from a business and an anglo-saxon culture. I am also biased 
>>as having shared in the international governance since 1977: I observed 
>>different models and I tend to be impressed by models which worked better 
>>than others and of which I understood the built-in logic explaining why. 
>>I draft my own model in 1985 as part of my job and to support my own job 
>>definition (extended services of the de facto monopoly over the national 
>>monopolies' international packet switch services). I observe that this 
>>model still stands technically, societally and politically: this leads me 
>>to think than others better than me could have also better models. So 
>>there is room and matter for a debate and for progress.
>>The central issue is the human network organization: the folks (like 
>>@large), the groups (like the GA), the governance (like ICANN). What you 
>>say about Affilias is therefore very interesting and could help in the 
>>real problem we face: how to manage an action, a business, through a 
>>network governance. The "ICANN experiment" has shown the importance of 
>>the outsiders (Joe Sims, NTIA, Stakeholders) and the power of the Staff. 
>>Could you explain how things work at Affilias? There is probably far less 
>>outsides and more direct business considerations: who has the real power?
>>To finish on this, my feeling is that we have known three technologies, 
>>economical models and public responses in term of international data 
>>services: Tymnet, OSI, Internet. They supported roughly 6, 60 and 600 
>>millions of users. We have now to target 6 billions. IMHO this is a good 
>>challenge for the WSIS to try to understand how we can make it though a 
>>global commonly worked out modelization, and may be for us all (in here) 
>>to share in this international big show with something concrete, not 
>>leaving everything to the ITU leadership.
>>I do not know if anyone will have read this Frenglish post until here. 
>>But I would call on everyone interested in an internet governance working 
>>group (ICANN sponsored?). Such a group could draft a letter to the 
>>General Secretary of the ITU and to the GAC members (also members of the 
>>ITU), asking that the internet governance people and businesses, as 
>>organized by ICANN and ccTLDs, could work on a global modelization of the 
>>international e-network services to the world society. Today and of the 
>>coming two decades, to know where we come from and how we can make it.
>>jfc
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>_/_/_/Richard A. S. Lindsay
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