Re: [ga] whois.txt, ala robots.txt, as a standard ?

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

I fully agree with Leah. Unless you've been stalked you've no idea the
effect it has on you and on your family. The WHOIS exposes families to
wholly unwarranted dangers. If people want to disclose their private and
personal details, then those details are theirs to disclose. If people want
to exercise a reasonable right to guard their privacy, and in some cases
this may be a matter of life and death, then their details are theirs to
protect.

I'm arguing for *processes* to be set up, so that contact and verification
details can be securely secured... *not* broadcast all over the world.

Leah is right to suggest that the need for WHOIS may also threaten and
intimidate people acting (for example) as dissidents in violent regimes.
Admittedly at a national level, it's unlikely they wouldn't be tracked down
anyway - but the unstable individual stalker is less well equipped - it is
simply a sane and proper safeguard to allow people to withhold their private
details from immediate public scrutiny.

Richard Henderson

PS: I also agree with another point of yours, Leah, in a separate mail...
the ridiculous price of the redemption fee... what a total rip-off... I
think it verges on extortion money. Has ICANN got any idea what that kind of
money means in some parts of the world? How do they reach that figure and
justify it? Or is it simply greed?

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Gallegos <jandl@jandl.com>
To: <ga@dnso.org>
Cc: <ga@dnso.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] whois.txt, ala robots.txt, as a standard ?


>
>
> On 7 Feb 2003 at 12:01, Dan Steinberg wrote:
>
> > where a teen overdosed on drugs which in a chatroom and on cam. The
> > >victim even mentions WHOIS in the chat logs, as a way to reach his
> > >family or for 911. Tragically, the WHOIS appears to have been
> > >inaccurate (phone number was a phone 555-1234), and the teen died. I've
> > >personally talked a few folks out of suicide online, and in one case
had
> > >to rely upon WHOIS to help reach one of their relatives. Others have
done
> > >the same, reaching their ISP, etc....when time is of the essence, every
> > >piece of data helps.
>
> This would be a case for law enforcement and data would then be available
> in Karl's scenario.  Law enforcement would have access credentials to
> obtain registration information and the information under those
> circumstances would more likely be accurate since people would not be so
> reluctant to provide it.
>
> > >
> > >So, the question for society and policy-makers: who should bear the
> > >costs? Should it be legitimate Privacy-seekers who can spend a couple
of
> > >dollars per year? Or society at large, where legitimate individuals and
> > >companies might need to spend thousands of dollars to get the privacy
> > >through increased legal costs, time delays, and the suffering of
greater
> > >abuse?
>
> Sorry, but if it costs money to pursue a legal case, then it costs money.
> There is no "right" of litigators to have personal identifiying
> information without having to ask for it.
>
> > >
> > >Having private WHOIS is really "security by obscurity", ultimately,
> > >which those in the security business will tell you is the *worst* kind
of
> > >security to rely upon. A determined person can kill you, no matter what
> > >you do! Scary isn't it? I don't lose much sleep at night, though, over
> > >that truth. What kind of message does it give vulnerable people that to
be
> > >safe, they need to hide? Folks should publish their contact details
> > >proudly and show they're not afraid.
>
> Excuse me.  If you have been stalked because of a public database, then
> tell me about it.  If not, please don't tell me to publish my or my
> family's personal information to aid the stalker.  I now covet my privacy
> and beware if you just show up at my door or call me on my unlisted
> telephone number.  My address is not published in any phone directory that
> I am aware of either.
>
> I'm sure that if someone really wants to find me, they can do so by
> conducting searches.  However, I have no intention of making it easy for
> them by having the information published for world-wide access by anyone
> at any time.
>
>  If the other person has to reveal
> > >themselves to take their shot at you, that might be your chance to
protect
> > >the rest of society, by catching them.
> > >
>
> Where did you come up with that?  Have you heard of snipers?  Stalkers?
> They don't reveal themselves.  They hide.  They stalk.  They use whatever
> means they can to disguise themselves so you can't shoot back.  They
> harrass, intimidate, threaten and cause fear, panic and misery.
>
> Just for giggles, have you ever tried to get the name of a collection
> agent?  They use pseudonyms so that you can't get to them.  I was not
> allowed to give my real name when I worked in collections.  Why?  Death
> threats, threats of harm to my family, etc.  Many times you can't even
> find out the address of the offices because they get threats of violence
> to the offices.  They have to hide to do their jobs.
>
> Now just imagine if someone didn't like your personal website and decided
> to come after you (think anti-choice since I don't like the other word).
> Think doctors who perform procedures.  WHOIS was never meant to be used
> the way it is now and individuals have ever more need to keep that
> information away from the public eye.
>
> You want to sue me?  Do your due diligence the way it has always been
> done.  I'm not going to help you.  It is especially true today with our
> frivilously litigeous mindset.  Peopel are dragged into court for the most
> ridiculous things, costing them their homes, savings and emotional health.
>  Why should they provide their information to those who would harrass them
> in this manner?
>
> Leah
>
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