RE: [registrars] Transfer Process Points

[dwascher@iaregistry.com]

The paper is to provide a constant way for the registrars to do business as
seen by the general public. If a customer decides to start a transfer on the
expiration date then the domain should be Auto-ACK'ed except for the reasons
outlined in the paper 5 days later. In that case that gives the customer a
choice and allows the losing registrar away to get his money back from NSI.
Zero hours after the expiration the registrar has time to do something else
with the domain.

All of us have cost - it is the cost of doing business. This cost is in the
registration process using different factors - basic business 101. To claim
that there are cost that prevent you from releasing the domain is plain and
simple "domain hostage" in a different wrapper. This is all part of what we
are fighting and trying to bring to closure for each of our customers.

So my recommendation (at a minimum) would be if the transfer is initiated on
the expiration date (time not included) then it passes. To be more
consistent - all of us should use GMT to know when the end of the expiration
is. There could still be the argument of allowing the transfer to go through
the day after because of the lag in emails and such it the transfer was
started 1 minute before midnight on the expiration date.

David W.
IARegistry

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
Behalf Of Larry Erlich
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:48 PM
To: Bhavin Turakhia
Cc: Registrars List
Subject: Re: [registrars] Transfer Process Points


Bhavin Turakhia wrote:
>
> Lets put it this way -
>
> "IF A CUSTOMER is unhappy with the current registrar then forcing him to
> stay EVEN POST EXPIRY is wrong.

That's a big "IF". What if they are not "unhappy"
but just think they found a cheaper source AFTER
the payment was already due?

> I believe one of the most important aspects
> of the documents was to be customer-centric. I believe as a customer I
> should have the free choice to choose my registrar at anytime. After all I
> NEVER asked for the auto renewal. Assuming you are giving me autorenewal
> also give me the choice to change my registarrs."

What do you mean that (as a customer) you never asked
for the autorenewal?

Do you think the needs of the customer would be
better served if the domains were deleted 1 day
after the expiration date?

>
> Additonally the costs you speak of of making phone calls and sending
letters
> is a customer retention cost. Every business has it. No business however
> FORCES a customer to stay just because thereis a cost to customer
retention.

Well, maybe that is the way you think
about it, but if that were the case we wouldn't
send postal invoices (costing .80c in postage plus
the other mailing/printing costs) to registrants overseas where we
have little chance of getting renewals from them
(based statistically on past experience). We would
just send emails. We do it for many reasons. Only 1
is customer retention.

> You say you bear an expesne in making phone calls and trying to get a
> customer to renew. I presume this cost is made by you before the domain
name
> expires.

Why assume that? That is not necessarily the case. I know
also that with NSI Registrar they used to send out
postal dunning notices AFTER the expiration date. 1 "late"
and 1 "last notice". I don't know if they still do that.

> Therefore if the customer inspite of you CALLING HIM UP and mailing
> him chose not to renew with you before the expiry itself is DIRECT proof
> that he doe snot want to deal with you.

(I hope he doesn't sneeze on us.)

He might like us, like our service, even be
my next door neighbor, but might decide
to take his chances with a person selling a domain
at a lower price. This is not the same as saying
that he doesn't want to deal with us (which denotes
some negative context).

We can agree that the customer
might find a lower price elsewhere, and want to renew
elsewhere. Our only disagreement is when they can do
that.

The initial registry covers the domain for 1
year. After 1 year, if the domain is not paid, the registrar
can delete the name.

In lieu of deleting the name they
might decide to offer a grace period to the customer.

During that grace period they can prevent transfers.
It seems pretty simple to me.

> If on the other hand the customer
> did want to renew with you I dont he would when you remind him and call
him
> up continuously
>
> At the end of the day the true spirit of this proposal is to ensure that
the
> customer has a free choice.

Payment for services is a very important
concept that you are not factoring in to all of
this. The payment is due by the expiration date.
If the payment is not made by the expiration date
the customer is in default. (The refund of the
$6 fee does not alter this as the customer is
not a party to all of the other conditions of
the contract that are reqired (such as having
money on deposit etc.))

Larry Erlich

http://www.DomainRegistry.com

> By making an auto renew available but not
> allowing the customer to choose his registrar during this autorenew period
> we are restricting this free choice
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Super-User [mailto:root@netscott.com]On Behalf Of Larry Erlich
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:26 PM
> > To: Bhavin Turakhia
> > Cc: Registrars List
> > Subject: Re: [registrars] Transfer Process Points
> >
> >
> > Bhavin Turakhia wrote:
> > >
> > > BTW I dont know if I am missing something here but there is one thing
I
> > > could not find in the document which is VERY VERY important -
> > and that is
> > > the policy of transferring domain names during the 45 day
> > auto-renew period.
> > > Right now as I know it bulkregister, networksolutions and register.com
> >
> > You can add DomainRegistry.com Inc. to that list.
> >
> > > do
> > > not allow trfer of domain names after the expiry during the auto-renew
> > > period. However the true spirit of the auto-renew is actually
> > meant to allow
> > > the customer to renew the domain name with the registrar of his choice
> > > within that period.
> >
> > How did you arrive at that conclusion about the "spirit"?
> > (The paragraph below does not support that.)
> >
> > > Infact the verisign document clearly states that a
> > > refund would be made to the losing registrar if a domain name
> > is trferred
> > > during the auto-renew period.
> >
> > Bhavin,
> >
> > There are other costs involved other than simply
> > the refund of the renewal fee by the registry. I have
> > pointed this out before at various times.  For example
> > (in some cases) DomainRegistry.com makes phone calls, send out postal
> > mail etc. This costs money. By rights, a registrar could
> > (I would imagine) delete the name exactly on
> > the expiration date. I don't view post expiration
> > date as a grace period to change registrar as it
> > would alter our business practices to the detriment
> > of registrants. If the registrant wants to transfer
> > they can do that before the expiration date.
> >
> >
> > Larry Erlich
> >
> > http://www.DomainRegistry.com
> >
> > >
> > > this particular issue also causes a lot of transfer coincerns.
> > Since most
> > > customers do not wake up about the trf process immediately.
> > Then at the last
> > > moment if only about 4-5 days are left for the expiry it is not
> > possible to
> > > do the trfer.
> > >
> > > I dont know what the TUCOWS policy is on this since I have not
> > trefrred any
> > > domains after expiry from TUCOWS yet
> > >
> > > bhavin
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> > > > Behalf Of Elana Broitman
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 7:40 PM
> > > > To: Bhavin Turakhia; ross@tucows.com; Larry Erlich
> > > > Cc: Registrars List
> > > > Subject: RE: [registrars] Transfer Process Points
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think that Bhavin makes a very good point about defining a list of

> > > > apparent authority personnel.  The current ICANN and registry
> > > > contracts and
> > > > concensus policies DO NOT define "apparent authority" -
> > that's the whole
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > We can limit it to registrant and administrative contact, and
> > still allow
> > > > for indirect apparent authority per Louis' clairification, as
> > described by
> > > > Mike: "If there was a contractual provision in the ISP subscription
> > > > agreement
> > > > appointing the ISP as an agent/attorney-in-fact for registrar
> > sponsorship,
> > > > this would be acceptable as apparent authority. Simple
> > > > contractual language
> > > > absent this agent/attorney-in-fact language would not be sufficient
to
> > > > convey apparent authority to an ISP. Notwithstanding, the gaining
> > > > registrar
> > > > would still have to provide existence of this documentation
> > to the losing
> > > > registrar if requested."
> > > >
> > > > Mike - since your resolution states that the transfers document can
be
> > > > amended at any time, why don't we propose this as an amendment to
the
> > > > document for a separate vote?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Elana
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bhavin Turakhia [mailto:bhavin.t@directi.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:08 PM
> > > > To: ross@tucows.com; Larry Erlich
> > > > Cc: Registrars List
> > > > Subject: RE: [registrars] Transfer Process Points
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > it helps spread a unified message to all customers that the
> > > > > admin contact
> > > > > > and registrant have apparent authority to transfer a domain and
> > > > > therefore
> > > > > > they should be careful with what they put in those fields.
> > > > >
> > > > > So then how do you deal with my situation? I very
> > definitely have the
> > > > > authority to change registrars on behalf of Tucows but I am not
> > > > the Admin
> > > > > Contact.
> > > >
> > > > the number of people who may actually be authorised to do
> > this transfer
> > > > maybe many, however it is essential we stick with the admin
> > cotnact and
> > > > registrant lets say. if you have the authority to do the shift iu
> > > > am pretty
> > > > sure you have enuf authority to contact the current admin
> > contact and get
> > > > him to approve the transfer.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
> > 215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >

--
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Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
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