RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains

["Rob Hall" <rob@momentous.com>]

Chuck,

Thank you for your quick response.

Would it be simple to show a different status for domains that were within
that 45 day period.  Perhaps "Active - In Auto-Renew Grace Period".
Ideally, text that describes what that is could be included at the end of
the whois.

This would therefore not interfere with the actual auto-renew process, but
simply be a different output on the public whois.

Alternately, as this seemingly minor change is causing us grief, is it
possible that showing the 'expiry date' field could be temporarily disabled
on the whois until we are able to work this out ?

I know this may seem like a step backwards, but I think what is occuring was
not forseen by any of us (surprisingly), and is causing confusion among
registrants.

Rob.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@verisign.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:28 PM
To: 'Rob Hall'; Paul Stahura
Cc: registrars@dnso.org; info@verisign-grs.com; Gomes, Chuck
Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains


We are showing the "real expiration date" according to current policy.
Since the initial implementation of the 'auto renew grace period,' the
expiration date has been automatically extended one year when a name is
auto-renewed. We simply allow the renewal registration to be deleted during
the first 45 days and provide a credit of the $6.  The only difference now
is that the expiration is displayed in Registry Whois as required by the RGP
requirements, whereas before it was not displayed.

This is not to say that the concern being expressed by registrars is not
legitimate.  But it is not as simple as just showing the old expiration
date.  If we did that without forcing registrars to submit explicit
renewals, then the expiration date we displayed would not match the
registrar's in cases where a registrant renewed but the registrar simply
allowed the auto-renew process to take care of the renewal.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hall [mailto:rob@momentous.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:35 AM
To: Paul Stahura
Cc: registrars@dnso.org; info@verisign-grs.com; Chuck Gomes
Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains


I think the Registry needs to show the real expiry date, not the new one
once they have auto-renewed.  I would couple this with a change in status as
well.  Perhaps "Active - pending renewal" or "Active - Post Expiration".

As a Registrar, I can always explicitly renew the domain, and the date will
forward by a year.

As well, on the 45 day, the Registry could forward the date by a year, as
the domain has now been auto-renewed beyond any cancellation period.

In this way, Registrants would see what the true expiry date is.

I concur that we will get a lot of complaints (and even possible lawsuits)
where the Registrant has a copy of the Registry whois which would seem to
indicate that the domain is NOT due to expire, and then the Registrar goes
and deletes it.

Rob.





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
Behalf Of Larry Erlich
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:37 AM
To: Paul Stahura
Cc: registrars@dnso.org; info@verisign-grs.com
Subject: Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains


Paul Stahura wrote:
>
> I agree. A more informative status expiration will
> increase renewals and decrease frustration and confusion.
> The registry knows that the name has not been paid for yet, correct?

How does the registry know that the name hasn't
been paid for?

Unfortunately I don't see a way that they are going to be
able to explain this in the whois. That is, that the
"date" is not really the expiration date, but it"maybe"
the expiration date, so check with the whois of your registrar.

The fact is, there is really no point to having the expiration
date appear if it isn't authoratative.
And if it does need to appear, the only solution
that I can think of is to encode it in some way that
the average user can't decipher, but someone who knows the
code can. Like the registrar or someone who has taken the
time to read an explanation of the date.

Expiration date 2004-01-01 could be
shown just as RXD20040101 or something
even more cryptic. That way an average
uninformed user wouldn't make a mistake when looking
at the registry whois and thinking his domain had not
expired as has correctly been pointed out.


> How about:
>
> "Expiration Date if name is renewed: 2004-01-01 (This name is pending
> deletion)"

Doesn't make sense to do this. What is the point of
saying "Expiration Date if name is renewed:" Once again, how would
the registry know if the registrar has or has not been paid.
A renew command doesn't need to be sent if the registry
has autorenewed the name. Only if it has not.

Larry Erlich

http://www.DomainRegistry.com


>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nezih Erkman [mailto:nezih@erkman.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:15 PM
> To: VeriSign Global Registry Services
> Cc: Registrars Constituency
> Subject: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
>
> In the new WHOIS format, verisign-grs shows the status and expiration date
> for the domains which we all like the feature. However,
> there is a little problem with Auto-renewed domains:
>
> When the domain is auto-renewed, the registry has the new expiration date
> and this one is shown on the registry WHOIS without any
> other indicator that we or the registrant can tell whether the domain will
> is expired or not.
> This creates a problem, because, the registrant thinks that the domain is
> renewed, and asks us to correct our records according to
> the parent company (the Registry). Or, they don't even contact us thinking
> that there is nothing to worry, then all of a sudden, the
> domain is deleted.
>
> PS: This is also problem for the registrar transfers. The gaining
registrar
> will not know if the domain is Auto or Explicitly
> Renewed.
>
> Solution1:
>  Show the previous expiration date for the domains that are in the renewal
> grace period
>
> Solution2:
>  Show the auto-renewed date with an warning :
> ie: Expiration Date: 2004-01-01 (Temporary Expiration date)
> or
> PROJECTED Expiration Date: 2004-01-01
>
> Solution 3:
>  Show the auto-renewed date and use status field
> i.e. "status: AutoRenew Grace Period" or "status:Temporary Renew for 40
> days" or ."status: Pending for deletion" , etc.
> but NOT "status:AutoRenew", this would create more confusion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nezih Jack Erkman
> R & K GBS, Inc.
> 000Domains.com
> 501-779-1934

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