RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?

["Bhavin Turakhia" <bhavin.t@directi.com>]

Hi

1. Larry: I doubt that would typically be correct - since most credit
card companies have their statements sent within a month, it would be
very rare situations where a chargeback due to FRAUD would occur after 6
months. Infact I agree with patricio - our chargebacks due to FRAUD
after 2 months are lesser than 1% OF TOTAL CHARGEBACKS. There may be
chargebacks in the 4-6 month timeframe but those are not fraudulent
ones.

2. Tim: I agree with your ideas. Yes indeed we do not want to go any
backwards. I am quite ok with the expiry date appearing in the whois. I
am not against that. I think it is a step in the positive direction. I
am looking at an entirely different solution where if a registrar
deletes a domain name the registrar gets a refund. This is not an
unreasonable demand. Considering that this would affect a small fraction
of domains. Both you and chuck mention that the 60 day delete pending
period opens up possibilities of gaming. Can you tell me what gaming
possibilities do you forsee. In that respect Verisign is always
monitoring the RRP pools and I doubt any Registrar can misuse the delete
command significantly. I do not see any incentive to do so either. On
the other hand the possibility of obtaining a refund offers us
protection from poetential chargebacks.

And this is always the case in any reseller-manufacturer relationship.
All manufacturers have to protect their resellers.

* consumer goods manufacturers always take excess/unsold stock back from
their shops, or else shops would not stock huge amounts of inventory at
purchase price

* we have a large number of resellers who buy hosting services from us
and sell them ahead. Any reseller gets their package with us, we bill
them after the first 30 days. If they cancel the package in these 30
days we do not bill them, because they would not be billing their
customer. We have not had anyone game with this system (we have
monitoring just like verisign does). Simply because these steps are
taken in the interest of protecting the resellers and ensuring their
profits are not eroded.

* these steps have to be taken by any vendor with a distribution channel
especially where the margins are thin

Tim: you also mention steps taken by you to reduce fraud and keep it in
check. These unfortunately come at a cost. Most fraud detection and
prevention steps generally are quite manual :( - and cost quite a bit to
implement.

* here is another thing. I am willing to even pay a tiny fee for that
deletion - something like 1 dollar or so when I delet6e a name within 60
days - for the refund that I am given. That makes sense too. So that way
the registry does not take any risk of any gaming. That sounds like a
workable and fair proposal. This way no registrar can game the system,
because they would pay per delete, but it allows registrars who are
using the system to prevent fraud to actually use this CHUCK WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF THIS?

bhavin




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org 
> [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On Behalf Of Larry Erlich
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:28 PM
> To: Patricio Valdes
> Cc: registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: Re: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> Patricio Valdes wrote:
> > 
> > Larry,
> > 
> > I have to say I agree with you somewhat but not completely.
> > 
> > On a percentage base, what is the percentage of chargebacks that 
> > exceeds 60 days out of all your chargebacks.
> > 
> > I would say ours run in the low 1% - 2% of chargebacks.
> 
> Hi Patricio,
> 
> I'm would rather not say the exact number
> but it is much higher than 1-2%. 
> 
> Larry Erlich
> 
> 
> > Fraudalent chargebacks occur almost within a month since thats when 
> > the cardholder realizes someone else used his card.
> > 
> > Patricio Valdes
> > Parava Networks
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> > Behalf Of Larry Erlich
> > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:29 AM
> > To: Bhavin Turakhia
> > Cc: 'Gomes, Chuck'; registrars@dnso.org
> > Subject: Re: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> > 
> > Bhavin Turakhia wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Infact taking an extension of what you say however, the ideal 
> > > solution would be if the delete period (period during 
> which a refund 
> > > is given to a registrar for a new domain/renewal/transfer) was 
> > > increased to 2 months. In that case we as registrars could avoid 
> > > 100% of the fraud and do better business.
> > 
> > I don't agree with that. It might solve 95%
> > of the NON-FRAUD renewals/registrations but it wouldn't solve the 
> > FRAUD renewals/registrations. We have had chargebacks that 
> exceed 4 to 
> > 6 months from the date of the charge. Maybe it is different with 
> > whatever processor you use.
> > 
> > Larry Erlich
>