RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?

["Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com>]

Bhavin,

I believe that experience has shown that a longer delete period would also
result in some businesses (not necessarily registrars) holding on to names
longer to see if they can find another buyer, thereby gaming the system and
also keeping the name out of circulation longer.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Bhavin Turakhia [mailto:bhavin.t@directi.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:57 AM
To: tim@godaddy.com; 'Patricio Valdes'; 'Gomes, Chuck';
registrars@dnso.org
Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?


And yea - add to that the fact that I have noticed several amount of
fraudulent transactions where a single customer registered 5-6 1 year
names . If we had a delete pending period, we as a registrar would not
have borne any losses on these names which we had to delete after 40
days. However with chucks suggestion where we do a single year
registration - these fraudulent domains would still get thru and still
cause a loss to us.

A longer delete pending period (a period during which a full refund
maybe obtained by the registrar upon a delete) would bring fraud losses
down to almost ZERO, which is a huge boon for registrars (especially
those whose selling prices and therefore margins are low).

bhavin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Ruiz [mailto:tim@godaddy.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:14 PM
> To: Patricio Valdes; Gomes, Chuck; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; 
> registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> I think Chuck is making a reasonable suggestion here.
> 
> Explain to the customer that the first year will be applied 
> immediately, the other years will be added once the payment 
> has cleared or processed with their bank or credit card 
> company, which usually takes 60 days.
> 
> That could be clearly presented during the renewal process, 
> registration agreement, terms of service, etc.
> 
> That should also alleviate most concerns about discrepancies 
> between the registrar and registry expiration dates.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> Behalf Of Patricio Valdes
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:32 AM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> 
> If a registrar does not have confidence that its procedures 
> are not yet solid enough to prevent erroneous extensions or 
> to prevent fraudulent new registrations, then it might be a 
> good idea to simply handle multi-year registrations in this 
> manner: 1) initially register or renew a name for only one 
> year with VGRS; 2) during the first 60 days or so of the 
> new/renewed registration period, perform internal quality 
> checks and apply fraud management techniques; 3) if internal 
> quality checks and fraud investigation yield positive 
> results, then extend the name for multiple years.
> 
> 
> ----This used to be a good idea, but like I mentioned in a 
> previous thread, this can no longer be done after Verisign 
> decided to show full expiration date on Whois.
> 
> Again, who's the only one winning here? Why did they do it in 
> the first place? Beats me, I really do not know who benefits 
> from showing expiration date on Internic's whois, except 
> Verisign and Hackers who register using fraudalent credit 
> cards to register domains.
> 
> Patricio Valdes
> Parava Networks
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bhavin Turakhia [mailto:bhavin.t@directi.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:34 AM
> To: 'Patricio Valdes'; registrars@dnso.org
> Cc: 'Gomes, Chuck'
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> This is inkeeping partially with what we asked chuck. Your 
> observation is an important one too. Verisign unfortunately 
> has no way to credit you for years both in a renewal, or a 
> new registration. Both of these are important from the 
> perspective of registrars doing business. We deal in web 
> services other than domain names and when any customer of 
> ours renews their web hosting package by mistake for 4 years 
> and wants to convert it to 1 year we refund them the money 
> for 3 years.
> 
> Additionally what we were requesting chuck gomes was the 
> ability to delete a name and obtain a refund for the lattter 
> years. Ie if we delete a 5 year domin (after the grace 
> period) we should get refund for 4 years considering the 
> registry can sell that name - it is now in the available 
> pool. This is imperative to reduce our risk exposure in 
> credit card fraud where fraudsters register domain names for 
> 5-10 years and we cannot discover the fraud until a month 
> later. We end up losing more money in a single fraud than 
> what we make on selling a 100 domains
> 
> bhavin
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org 
> [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Patricio 
> Valdes
> > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:24 AM
> > To: registrars@dnso.org
> > Subject: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> >
> >
> > To all Registrars;
> >
> > Im sure we are not the only Registrar out there that has had this 
> > happen to, we accidentally renewed 30 domain names for a 
> client for 4 
> > years instead of 1. Verisign is telling us there is no way 
> of getting 
> > these Credits back or remove years to these names.
> >
> > I really think this is way beyond ridiculous!
> >
> > At this point we are really considering giving up being a 
> Registrar, 
> > the only people here winning are the Registry
> > (Verisign) and a few big Registrars.
> >
> > ICANN has done nothing to help smaller Registrars or to booster 
> > competition and it is nothing new that almost everything it 
> does goes 
> > to support Network Solutions and Verisign.
> >
> > We never get involved in the discussions because we barely 
> have time 
> > to run the business, now we are regretting it.
> >
> > How the hell did something like the Redemption Period and 
> $85 charge 
> > get approved? Sure as hell beats me.
> >
> > If anyone knows of a buyer please let us know, we are really fed up 
> > with ICANN, Verisign and Network Solutions controlling this 
> business.
> >
> > Anyone has any job openings?
> >
> > Patricio Valdes
> > Parava Networks
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
>