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RE: [wg-e] Translations
Sorry about answering my own message ;>)
I am just writing my thoughts as they come, but knowing that the UNU is
based in Tokyo, it would not be a bad idea to have them involved in ICANN's
meeting.
We could invite them to participate (for instance, they could have a slot in
the GA time) and tell us about this project. We could have some ideas for
the proposals of translation of the Web sites: it could very well be that
the UNU/IAS has already some results on the subject.
At the same time, they could help our outreach effort.
Anyway, I think that we should not lose the occasion.
Roberto, just brainstorming.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GAETANO, Roberto
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2000 19:13
> To: 'Bill Washburn'; wg-e@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [wg-e] Translations
>
>
> Hi.
>
> About translations and official languages, please have a look
> at this page from the UN University on this subject:
> http://www.unl.ias.unu.edu/.
>
> Regards
> Roberto
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Washburn [mailto:bill@realnames.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2000 16:07
> > To: 'jelliott@tucows.com'; GAETANO, Roberto; Bill Washburn;
> > wg-e@dnso.org
> > Subject: RE: [wg-e] Translations
> >
> >
> > The way I see it, we doubtless have to agree on the pragmatic
> > reality that a
> > quite limited number of translation languages is the most
> > that ICANN can
> > possibly afford or coordinate in the near term. I further
> > agree that the UN
> > official languages makes sense as a starting point. I have
> > two concerns,
> > however, to express. First the UN list ignores both Japanese
> > and German--a
> > vestige of the World War II origins of the UN, I assume.
> This is not
> > something to perpetuate, IMO. I'd propose that at least
> > Japanese needs to
> > be included in the list of languages--at least if is true
> > that Japanese
> > citizens tend to be monolingual (as is true with most U.S.
> > citizens). The
> > other concern I have is leaving African languages off the
> > list entirely.
> > There is precious little ICANN involvement by Africans as it
> > is. I don't
> > relish the idea of leaving the languages of Africa entirely
> > off the list as
> > it would seem to be a sure basis of perpetuating under
> > participation by
> > citizens of African nations.
> >
> > As far as the situation in terms of ICANN coordination in
> > concerned, I'd
> > suggest that we ought to pursue an agreement with Andrew
> and the ICANN
> > board, perhaps, whereby additional funding is sought from
> > Markle (or others)
> > to fund professional level translation services for a one
> > year period. This
> > would help ICANN get translation off the ground sooner rather
> > than later;
> > would help immensely with the outreach and awareness
> > objectives; and would
> > have the side benefit of demonstrating just how translation makes a
> > difference financially and politically in the operation and
> > administration
> > of ICANN.
> >
> > cheers, bill washburn
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Elliott [mailto:jelliott@tucows.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 9:16 AM
> > To: R.Gaetano@iaea.org; bill@realnames.com; wg-e@dnso.org
> > Subject: RE: [wg-e] Translations
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, it seems most documents that come out of ICANN
> > are legal in
> > nature, and so it will be difficult to expand translation
> > service past 5 or
> > 6 languages. On the other hand, Diane's idea that ICANN
> could like to
> > translated versions which are done on a volunteer level
> > regionally could
> > work. The problem with volunteers is their commitment level
> > - I am the
> > perfect example of that as this is my 2nd post to this list
> > in 3 months
> > (something which will improve starting today).
> >
> > I think officially, ICANN should have translation done into
> > the UN official
> > languages, and then have links to unofficial translations
> > done on a regional
> > level. That way, we can get African dialects included, but
> > not have to
> > choose who gets to be official or unofficial. I think the
> > key to unofficial
> > translations is funding. If ICANN can provide some funding
> > for unofficial
> > services (some sort of grant program), then it will probably
> > work a bit more
> > efficiently than if it was dependent on unpaid volunteer efforts.
> >
> > The other problem here is having these efforts coordinated at
> > ICANN. The
> > staff is already overworked and has no time to do this, but
> > we need someone
> > to spend a few hours a week making sure this is done properly.
> >
> > That is my 2 cents.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-wg-e@dnso.org [mailto:owner-wg-e@dnso.org]On Behalf Of
> > > R.Gaetano@iaea.org
> > > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 12:35 AM
> > > To: bill@realnames.com; wg-e@dnso.org
> > > Subject: RE: [wg-e] [owner-wg-e@dnso.org: BOUNCE wg-e@dnso.org:
> > > Non-member submission from [Bill Washburn
> > <bill@realnames.com>] Message
> > > too long (>40000 chars)]
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > #1 In what languages do you feel the ICANN web site, election
> > > > ballots, and
> > > > other materials should be translated? Please order your list
> > > > of languages
> > > > in priority. Also, I will assume that if you list only one
> > > > language then
> > > > you feel that is all ICANN needs to do. If, on the other
> > > > hand, you list
> > > > five or 10 or 15 languages, then I will take it that you feel
> > > > that is the
> > > > number of languages which ICANN must cover.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I believe that the basis should be the UN official
> > languages (with the
> > > caveat that different UN Organizations have different
> > official languages),
> > > therefore at least English, French, Spanish, Arabic,
> > Chinese, Russian.
> > > For a reference, see http://www.un.org/.
> > >
> > > I also think that we should include other widely used
> languages, in
> > > particular if they are important at a regional level.
> > >
> > >
> > > > #2 How do you believe that translation of the web site and
> > > > other materials
> > > > should occur? If you believe it must be done by a commercial
> > > > translation
> > > > company, please provide any details on a company you know or
> > > > feel would be
> > > > productive. If youbelieve it can be done fast enough and
> > > > with sufficient
> > > > quality by volunteers, please give specifics about how such a
> > > > volunteer
> > > > system could work over say the next 12 months. If you
> > > > believe there are
> > > > non-profit or even government organizations that would be the
> > > > best resources
> > > > to utilize, please give details what organizations, what
> > > > officers, what
> > > > locations and so forth you have in mind.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I believe that we have two separate problems: the "official"
> > > documents, and
> > > the "less official" documentation material (see also
> > comment to #3 below).
> > > For official documents, that may have even legal relevance,
> > there is no
> > > other way than go to professional translators, but for general
> > > documentation
> > > we can easily rely on local structures.
> > >
> > > Please allow me to open a parenthesis.
> > > We need to define a "model" for DNSO/ICANN membership and
> > organization
> > > before being able to answer this question.
> > > If the model is ICANN-Staff-at-headquarter-centric, i.e. if
> > everything is
> > > managed centrally from Marina del Rey, well, the only
> > possibility is to
> > > collect enough money to have it done professionally
> > (volounteering may be
> > > scarce).
> > > If, OTOH, the model will be more decentralized, with
> > regional offices and
> > > "chapters", that are coordinated from LA but with large
> > authonomy on local
> > > (or regional) initiatives, these local chapters will be
> > incentivated to
> > > publish material in their own local languages, and will find
> > > themselves the
> > > best way to do it in a most cost-effective way. Also,
> > volounteering effort
> > > will be incentivated in this latter case.
> > > The advantage of the second model from the strict
> > "outreach" POV, is that
> > > local structures can address the type of material (not only
> > the languages)
> > > that are more adapted to the local culture. The "cultural
> > barreer" is not
> > > just the language: you can sometimes provide the best
> > translation possible
> > > of a document that is foreign to the local cultures, and
> > still make it
> > > incomprehensible.
> > >
> > > I am not sure that to discuss about the structure of DNSO/ICANN
> > > (centralized
> > > vs. decentralised) is in the charter of wg-e, but sure it is a
> > > key question
> > > that changes the approach of outreach.
> > >
> > >
> > > > #3 I understand that ICANN feels a legal concern/obligation
> > > > to ensure that
> > > > translations are certifiably correct. By what means do you
> > > > suggest this
> > > > kind of "verification of accuracy" occur? Do you have or do
> > > > you know others
> > > > who have experience in this matter? (On this particular
> > > > point I am going to
> > > > ask a colleague, Francis Gurry at WIPO if he has any
> > suggestions.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > As noted above, the problem with documents that imply legal
> > > obligations will
> > > be separated from the mass of documents for information.
> > Legal documents
> > > will be a tiny minority (at least I hope) of the material
> > that will be
> > > produced.
> > > For legal material, I believe that ICANN will never accept
> > to engage in
> > > obligations to have more than a handful of languages (like,
> > for instance,
> > > the UN official languages).
> > >
> > > As for the experience on this subject, the reference should be the
> > > International Organizations, with the UN System in first
> > place. They all
> > > have professional translators in the official languages,
> > that have to be
> > > accredited (pretty much as you have "official" translators
> > accredited to
> > > every Embassy or Consulate). BTW, the translation is one major
> > > item of cost
> > > in the UN budget, so be aware of the economical constraints
> > if we go the
> > > path of professional services.
> > >
> > > Please let me know if you want more details on the
> > translation. I can
> > > provide the IAEA data (I assume they are public, I will
> > check), and assume
> > > also that the UN Secretariat in NY will have a
> > documentation service that
> > > has data about the translation (how it is done, how much does it
> > > cost, ...).
> > >
> > >
> > > > The reason I am asking these questions is because I
> > > > believe that Working
> > > > Group E can contribute very effectively to the Global
> > > > Outreach and Awareness
> > > > mandate of the DNSO and to the ICANN Membership at Large
> > > > Implementation Task
> > > > Force work by answering or recommending answers, at least.
> > > > Also, I believe
> > > > this will help us immensely to begin to formulate some
> > > > estimates of costs to
> > > > be shouldered during the next 12 months in the translation of
> > > > materials, web
> > > > site translation, maintenance, and so on. Of course I am
> > > > only aiming to
> > > > help in the larger effort of our group and I sincerely
> > > > apologize if I have
> > > > made a mistake in missing a question or if I have spoken
> > out of turn.
> > > > Thanks you all very much for bearing with me in this long
> > > > message and I hope
> > > > that you can find time to answer these questions.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully, bill washburn
> > > >
> > > > Bill Washburn
> > > > Chief Policy Officer
> > > > RealNames Corp.
> > > > bill@realnames.com
> > > > voice: +1 650 298 5520
> > > > [snip]
> > > >
> >
>