Re: [wg-review] (Consensus) "Rough" Consensus ambiguity

["Chris McElroy" <watch-dog@inreach.com>]

Thanks Sotiris. For showing the link. Very interesting read.

Chris McElroy aka NameCritic


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sotiropoulos" <sotiris@hermesnetwork.com>
To: <wg-review@dnso.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: [wg-review] (Consensus) "Rough" Consensus ambiguity


> Since the issue of Consensus, "rough" and otherwise is such a hot issue on
the List, I have something to offer which many will indubitably find quite
> interesting, particularly when one considers the credentials of the
persons involved.  Here it is, enjoy:
>
> Comments made by David Clark in a transcripted conversation with Jonathan
Zittrain entitled: "On the Issue of Domain Names..." (1997):
> ___________________________________________________
> DC: I once said, we had a war inside the--you know, this is a very
personal community--we had a war and
> lynched our leaders because they made a mistake, and so we threw them all
out. We had a real purge, and I was asked
> after that to give a calming talk, which was a little weird, and so I
invented a saying in trying to describe our community, both its strengths
and
> weaknesses, and I said, "We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We
believe in
> rough consensus and a running code." Somebody made that into a T-shirt and
printed out one thousand copies.
> It is true that any time anybody stands up and offers to leave, this
particular community kills them
> first and then asks why, because if you want to leave, you must have
self-interest, and therefore we don't trust
> you.
>
> JZ: Say it again.
>
> DC: We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in rough consensus
and a running code," where rough consensus was
> deliberately ambiguous concerning whether the consensus and its final
product were ... (inaudible) or the process
> was ... (inaudible). The answer was both are true. But whenever anybody
stands up and says, "I want to leave," this
> community's reflexive reaction is to not trust them. And so it kills them
in a minute. So Jon (Postel) is one of the few
> people with stature, because he's been around so long and his credentials
are so impeccable. He's never made a
> judgment that looked as if it smacked of self-interest or idiocy. And so,
yeah, the issue of literally replacing him
> is a fascinating one. And I thought he was going to resign last year when
he got sued."
> ************************************************
> I want to point out the line: "We believe in rough consensus and a running
code," where rough consensus was
> deliberately ambiguous..."  My question: If "rough consensus" was
deliberately ambiguous in '97, what makes it any more coherent in 2001?
>
> If you're wondering what the "community" mentioned above is, Jonanthan
Zittrain provides the following answer in the same conversation:
> ______________________________________________________
> Open Floor Question: "What's the community--I heard a couple of times, the
community said this or that, the community did
> this or that.
>
> JZ:  We've always viewed that the designers of the Internet are an open,
self-selecting set of people,
> and the Internet engineering test works meetings are open to anybody,
anybody can come. We try to keep the
> registration fee down, we don't change the names, the meetings are open,
we announce them on the Net, and that group
> of people--especially those who have come enough that they feel that they
can open their mouths without getting
> inflamed--are in some sense a body of the whole. We have an open house
every Thursday night, and the area directors,
> the guys who are responsible for the thirteen areas, put on T-shirts with
bulls' eyes on the front, and they go sit
> up there and anybody can say anything they want. ... (inaudible) on-line,
or it's just you have to be--"
> ______________________________________________________
>
> I think everyone on this List MUST read the entire conversation, if only
to get a flavour of how things got to where they are today.  The entire
transcript
> can be found at: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/fallsem97/trans/clark/
>
>
> Sotiris Sotiropoulos
>           Hermes Network, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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