Re: [ga] Re: Travel to Stockholm

["NameCritic" <watch-dog@inreach.com>]

There is an issue to be discussed as far as travel expenses for
representatives of the GA. Since the membership of the GA are individual
users of the Internet and Domain Name Holders, ICANN should IMHO do
everything it can to insure we are represented in Stockholm and at all
meetings. They are supposed to reach conclusions from a bottom up consensus.

That is their mission, or at least it is supposed to be. The representatives
from Registrars, ISPs, Businesses, and Intellectual property have the
resources to spend on these expenses and will obviously be represented
there.

However without the membership here, the dreaded domain name speculators and
the individual users, those constituencies would not have the money to go
either.

I would like to see a proposal that the other constituencies foot the bill
through ICANN, if they truly want to reach a consensus through bottom up
procedures. Not doing so shows the lack of concern the ICANN is accused of
for the average user of the Internet and the over-concern they have for
protecting large corporate interests.

Pricing individual involvement out is an old ploy. In Philadelphia I used to
be a small contractor. The US Gov gave Philadelphia 60 million dollars to
revamp all of the old homes and buildings and to create low cost housing.
They stipulated however in order for Philadelphia to get the money they
allow small contractors to compete for the jobs with bids.

So the City of Philadelphia set it up so anyone can bid, but you have to be
able to pay for all the materials and labor for the job in question and wait
one year to be paid by the city. Therefore they still found a way to cut out
the small contractors who could not afford to do this.

As I said it is an old ploy still being used in this instance. Make the
appearance of asking for individual cooperation but set it up so it's not
really available or easy to achieve. Then later they can say, well we did
ask for cooperation and input from individuals but they chose not to
participate so we did what we thought best.

This is the only transparent process I have seen involving ICANN.

Chris McElroy aka NameCritic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "M. Stuart Lynn" <lynn@icann.org>
Cc: "Alternate Chair, GA" <patrick@corliss.net>; "[ga]" <ga@dnso.org>;
"Philip Sheppard" <philip.sheppard@aim.be>; "vint cerf" <vcerf@MCI.NET>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Travel to Stockholm


> Stuart and all assembly members,
>
>   Thank you for you candid input on this matter.  It is much appreciated
> by me and I hope others on this forum as well.
>
>   I personally don't believe that for travel expenses that ICANN should
> shoulder the financial burden for ANY participant regardless of their
> level of participation.  ICANN is a non-profit organization, and as such
> has limited avenues by which it can collect funding, thereby potentially
> limiting it's funding accordingly, potentially.  It is therefore in my
mind
> that Patrick's or Danny's request for travel expenses should come
> from their own sources or from the GA members themselves.  Given
> the rancor that Patrick has created himself on the DNSO GA ML and
> new Patrick created additional ML's supposedly not associated with
> the GA but using the DNSO's DN have likely negated any likelihood
> of the GA members collecting funding for his travel expenses.
>
>
>
> M. Stuart Lynn wrote:
>
> > Dear Patrick:
> >
> > Please do not enlarge the problem by ascribing motives to me that
> > have nothing to do with what is a straightforward administrative
> > issue. This has nothing to do with anyone's views of the GA,
> > "concerted efforts to undermine the GA", potential Individual
> > Constituencies, your qualifications, or whatever. It has nothing to
> > do with whether or not I welcome "grass roots participation" -- in
> > fact, I personally welcome all participation.
> >
> > Frankly, you know nothing of my views on any of these issues. You
> > have never spoken with me about any of them. To be quite candid, I
> > have not been long enough in this position to have any well-formed
> > views on these matters. My views will ultimately be formed by
> > listening to reasoned and constructive discussions, and by reading
> > what people have to say -- and I will try hard not to be influenced
> > by those who ascribe all sorts of nasty motivations to people they do
> > not even know. I understand there are lots of people out there who
> > have nothing better to do than engage in those kinds of behaviors,
> > but you I know are not one of them.
> >
> > This, as I said, is a straightforward administrative matter. As I
> > understand it, ICANN's budgets are not used for covering SO expenses.
> > This does not single out the DNSO or the GA, but applies across the
> > all SO's. Perhaps your opinion is that this should change, and the
> > budget should be adapted to accommodate certain kinds of SO expenses.
> > In which case, that is a matter to be pursued through process,
> > ultimately requiring Board approval. We cannot make exceptions on an
> > ad hoc basis and be fair to all constituencies.
> >
> > My comment about expectations is equally simple. You apparently
> > "assumed" that ICANN would cover your expenses, but never checked in
> > advance. Apparently that approach fits within your framework of
> > making decisions. I can tell you that it does not fit within my
> > framework or those of most people that I know. If the acceptance of a
> > volunteer position depended upon travel for which I have no sources
> > of support, I would most certainly check in advance as to what is the
> > relevant policy before agreeing to accept.
> >
> > My comment about no time before Stockholm was intended to mean that
> > the chance of a grant application being made and accepted in time is
> > extremely unlikely. If you know of any possible source for which this
> > is not the case, I would of course be delighted to write a letter of
> > support.
> >
> > So I suggest we focus on the matter at hand and not attribute all
> > kinds of extraneous motivations. I repeat what I said earlier -- I do
> > hope you, the GA, and the DNSO can find some way for you to come to
> > Stockholm. Maybe then we meet and get to understand each other's
> > views better. I am sure you have a lot to offer as co-chair of the
> > GA, -- and that is why you have been elected -- and I would look
> > forward to working with you.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> > At 11:13 PM +1000 5/12/01, Alternate Chair, GA wrote:
> > >Dear Mr Lynn
> > >
> > >I speak here for myself alone.  My financial situation is very poor and
I
> > >will be unable to attend any ICANN meetings without financial support.
The
> > >Chair and I have only just been appointed and have had no opportunity
to
> > >establish any "self-funding".  The Salzburg Seminar has refused to
help.
> > >
> > >Personally I am capable and competent.  My first degree, commenced in
> > >1979, is a Bachelor of Applied Science in Computing Science.  I also
have
> > >a Masters degree in Accounting.  I am, or have been, a member of five
> > >professional bodies including the Australian Computer Society.  For two
> > >years I lectured in IT at the University of Technology, Sydney.
> > >
> > >You should also be aware that I am a Director of the Australian Domain
> > >Administration ("auDA") and the Top Level Domain Association ("TLDA").
> > >I am very familiar with all of the issues and could contribute a great
deal
> > >in achieving useful outcomes.
> > >
> > >However, it is apparent to me, at least, that there has been a
concerted
> > >effort to undermine the efforts of the General Assembly both internally
and
> > >externally.  Any proposal, such as that for the Individuals
Constituency,
> > >which has grass-roots support, is sidelined or ignored.  My expertise
could
> > >be useful to draw these issues together in a constructive way.
> > >
> > >I am therefore astonished that you should wonder what my expectations
were
> > >when I agreed to take on the position of Alternate Chair.  It is my
view
> > >that the physical meetings are an integral part of the consensus
process
> > >and, as such, should be funded by the DNSO with support from ICANN.
> > >
> > >Of course, I understand your explanation and consider your letter as
the
> > >official ICANN response.  However, I would have thought that you would,
> > >at least, pretend to welcome genuine grass-roots participation.
Anything
> > >less simply turns ICANN into a joke.  You have also said:
> > >
> > >>  Occasionally we are successful in helping with travel grant
applications,
> > >>  but mostly to fund travel from countries where travel support is
> > >>  impossible.  In any event, it is too late for Stockholm, but you may
want
> > >>  to look into the possibility for future meetings.
> > >
> > >With genuine determination it is possible to overcome significant
obstacles.
> > >It is therefore not to late to go to Stockholm.  The rest of this
statement
> > >of yours is quite empty of content.  Travel support is impossible
regardless
> > >of which country I am from.  ICANN will either fund the travel or not.
> > >
> > >I am truly very disappointed.  Not personally but for the failure of
ICANN
> > >to establish a proper structure and strategy.
> > >
> > >Yours sincerely
> > >
> > >Patrick Corliss
> > >Alternate Chair
> > >DNSO GA
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: M. Stuart Lynn <lynn@icann.org>
> > >To: Danny Younger <webmaster@babybows.com>; Patrick Corliss
> > ><patrick@corliss.net>
> > >Cc: vint cerf <vcerf@MCI.NET>; <philip.sheppard@aim.be>
> > >Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 10:00 PM
> > >Subject: Travel to Stockholm
> > >
> > >>  Danny and Patrick:
> > >>
> > >>  I know you are faced with a difficult problem regarding funding your
> > >>  travel to Stockholm.
> > >>
> > >>  I do, however, want to underscore what Vint has essentially
mentioned
> > >>  to you. The ICANN SO's are intended to be self-funding. Their
> > >>  expenses are not included within the ICANN budget. Under the ICANN
> > >>  bylaws, as you know, the GA is advisory to the Names Council and it
> > >>  is most appropriate, therefore, that you approach the Names Council
> > >>  for travel support. I say this knowing that the Names Council is
> > >>  grappling with its own problems on how to fund the DNSO Secretariat.
> > >>
> > >>  I think you can appreciate that if I were to approve your request
> > >>  (which is not within my power to do so under the budgetary authority
> > >>  granted me by the Board), I could easily open up ICANN to many, many
> > >>  "worthy" requests from across all SO's.
> > >>
> > >>  I also wonder what were your expectations when you agreed to take on
> > >>  these positions? Did you consider how you would fund the travel
> > >>  expenses that would so obviously be part of the undertaking? I know
> > >>  that had you asked me in advance, I would have given you the same
> > >>  response as above.
> > >>
> > >>  Having said all that, I do hope you can find some way to fund your
> > >>  travel to Stockholm and other future ICANN meetings. Occasionally we
> > >>  are successful in helping with travel grant applications, but mostly
> > >>  to fund travel from countries where travel support is impossible. In
> > >>  any event, it is too late for Stockholm, but you may want to look
> > >>  into the possibility for future meetings.
> > >>
> > >>  With regards
> > >>
> > >>  Stuart
> > >>
> > >>  --
> > >>
> > >>  __________________
> > >>  Stuart Lynn
> > >>  President and CEO
> > >>  ICANN
> > >>  4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
> > >>  Marina del Rey, CA 90292
> > >>  Tel: 310-823-9358
> > >>  Fax: 310-823-8649
> > >>  Email: lynn@icann.org
> >
> > --
> >
> > __________________
> > Stuart Lynn
> > President and CEO
> > ICANN
> > 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
> > Marina del Rey, CA 90292
> > Tel: 310-823-9358
> > Fax: 310-823-8649
> > Email: lynn@icann.org
> >
> > --
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>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>

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