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RE: [ga] let's try to see this constructively... and not over rea ct ...
I'm going to post one more message in this thread, and then I'll
stop, although I have the disquieting feeling that I'm failing to
communicate what seems to me to be a simple point.
[1] I think that people should respond to the survey. They should
do so without regard to whether the survey is well- or badly-designed,
because this is the only survey on the table, and its results will likely
be part of the ICANN policy process.
[2] I think that people should do whatever they can, within the
four corners of the survey, to communicate their views, including using the
narrative boxes to the extent they can. (Alternatively, I know one person
who wrote a narrative statement and sent it in *instead* of the survey.)
[3] None of this renders it off-limits to point out that the
survey is slanted, and the existence of narrative questions doesn't negate
the problem. If I were to receive a multiple-choice survey in which the
first question asked whether the President/Prime Minister's performance was
(a) outstanding; or (b) above average, and gave no other choices, than the
fact that question 20 allowed me to insert narrative comments would not
negate the bias. Indeed, if I were to receive a multiple-choice survey in
which a question asked whether the President/Prime Minister's performance
was (a) outstanding; (b) above average; or (c) [fill in the blank], the
fact that respondents could write in answers wouldn't negate the bias,
because we'd still have the problem that the question makes it easier to
give some answers than others. I described one slanted question (although
not the only one) in the whois survey earlier in this thread; anyone who
wants to read about it can scroll down.
Jon
At 11:00 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, Marilyn Cade wrote:
>Jonathan, and Michael and others...
>
>Why not use the narrative questions to include other perspectives that you
>think aren't included, as informational points?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jonathan Weinberg [mailto:weinberg@mail.msen.com]
>Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 9:44 PM
>To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA; 'Michael Froomkin'; 'Danny Younger'
>Cc: 'ga@dnso.org'
>Subject: Re: [ga] let's try to see this constructively... and not over
>react ...
>
>
> I think you miss Michael's point, Marilyn. He's not saying that
>the study is statistically invalid because it allows for narrative
>responses. He's saying that it's invalid because it's systematically
>biased in favor of one set of results. Thus, for example, he mentions
>Question 9, which asks whether each whois data element is "essential,"
>"desirable" or "valueless." Problem is, almost any information has
>value. Nobody would say that a registrant's postal address, say, is
>"valueless" -- but the survey gives no opportunity to say that it is
>nonetheless unnecessary, or that the privacy costs associated with
>including it outweigh that value. Rather, the respondent's only other
>choices are that the information is either "essential" or
>"desirable." That's a slanted question.
>
> I think that everyone should fill out the survey, notwithstanding
>its bias, because -- like it or not -- the responses this survey generates
>will help shape ICANN action. But that doesn't mean that one shouldn't
>point out the survey's rather unfortunate flaws.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>At 09:12 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
>
> >I agree with Danny's response. In my view, always easy to be critical;
> >better to be constructive.
> >
> >I regret that Michael has expressed only concerns. Isn't the survey not to
> >determine an outcome in itself, but to try to gather information?
> >Obviously, using narrative responses is not going to result in a
> >statistically valid study; and given the method of distribution, it isn't a
> >"sample", but that wasn't and isn't the point, I would say.
> >
> >I still encourage everyone who uses WHOIS to respond and to be
>constructive.
> >
> >I believe that even sociologists sometimes do non-statistical "field
> >research"....
> >
> >
> >
> >Marilyn
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Michael Froomkin [mailto:froomkin@law.miami.edu]
> >Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:48 PM
> >To: Danny Younger
> >Cc: ga@dnso.org
> >Subject: Re: [ga] Re: "They're Coming To Take Me Away. Ha Ha."
> >
> >
> >I meant a professional with experience in survey design, not someone paid
>by
> >ICANN to do whatever it is ICANN pays them to do. It goes without saying
> >that
> >no one at ICANN, or the NC, has this somewhat specialist skill (although I
> >would
> >not be surprised to find it in the GA somewhere). No blame attaches for
> >this,
> >as there is no reason we should expect them to--it's a technical body
> >(right?),
> >not a social science research unit. But nor should we place much credence
> >in
> >the results, whoever designed it.
> >
> >I don't see the value of a lot of energy being used to produce something
> >that
> >cannot be relied on. The lesson is: if you are going to do a survey, run
> >it by
> >someone who designs them for a living. Someone in a sociology department
> >or a
> >psychology department of a university who does empirical work if you can't
> >get a
> >professional pollster.
> >
> >In fact, given the bias of the design, the greater the 'outreach' for this
> >survey, the greater the damage.
> >
> >[I'll almost certainly be offline from now until Tuesday due to travel.]
> >
> >Danny Younger wrote:
> >
> > > With regard to the WHOIS survey, Michael Froomkin writes: "I wish
>whoever
> > > wrote this had consulted a professional."
> > >
> > > Actually, we are probably quite lucky that the Names Council's WHOIS
> > > committee (of which I am also a member) wrestled this project away from
> >the
> > > ICANN staff which some time ago had formed its own WHOIS Committee
> > > http://www.icann.org/committees/whois/. Yes, it might have been more
> > > professional had the ICANN staff devoted their full-time professional
> >skills
> > > to it, but I for one am quite happy to see the uncompensated volunteer
> > > members of the Names Council showing some real initiative and a desire
>to
> > > address the problems that lay ahead.
> > >
> > > Whatever this survey may lack in "design", one has to admit there has
>been
> >a
> > > major effort made at outreach, along with a significant effort to
> >translate
> > > this survey into multiple languages (more soon to be forthcoming).
>Please
> > > bear in mind that this is only step one in a much longer process that
>will
> > > fully involve the General Assembly. Let's not go overboard with the
> > > criticism when it is clear that we are making forward progress.
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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