Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Marilyn and all assembly members,

  A Whois query on a Domain name need not list a registrants
personal and private information such as Private or personal
residence, their personal or home Phone Number, or even
their personal E-Mail address as Admin contact Data fields
are available for addressing concerns regarding a potential
problem domain name registration as well as the personal
and private information done at registration is escrowed
or can be otherwise available via the Registrar or the Registry
in the SRS database or the RRP.

  By contrast, a White Pages listing would list by last name/First name
or Initial and perhaps middle initial their personal residence physical
address or equivalent (P.O. Box for example) and their Home phone
Number.  Yet law enforcement can obtain a subpoena if necessary
via the local phone company provider for any personal and private
information if that person that owns or is using that particular phone
number should they be unable to contact them.

Conclusion:

  If one does not need to list their hone Phone number, personal and private
physical residence (P.O. Box as well) in the White pages if they have
a home Phone number than why should that personal a private
information be made public in Whios data listing on a Domain name
that person or entity registered when there is an Admin contact
listed with a potential address, Admin E-Mail address data field,
and a Admin Phone contact number?  In addition if the registrant
at the time of registration provides any personal private information
but does not want that personal information listed for public viewing
and Admin Contact data fields are available, it is not necessary
to list that registrants personal and private information for public
viewing as all that is necessary in the Admin Contact data fields
in the Whois record for that Domain Name registration is available
should some problem arise..

  Note:

  Of course this subject area has been hashed over and over again for
about 4 years now at different times on this and other ICANN
related forums...  Therefore I can only conclude personally, that
rehashing this area and issue is more akin to trying to ware down
the Privacy Act's protections for individuals and inherently
attempt by doing so, to inhibit and otherwise potentially damage
or threaten a persons personal safety for the sake of connivance
of a very few and only under the perceived threat of some
small occurrence of fraud or other registrant nefarious activity.

Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:

> Jeff, do elaborate on the differences on what is listed in a "white pages" listing and WHOIS.
>
> In white pages, name, address and telephone number is the typical listing. [unless there is an opt out, or situation Jeff described for Texas which requires opt in].
>
> What is the difference with WHOIS listings?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:25 PM
> To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
> Cc: ga@dnso.org; Alexander Svensson; Dan Halloran; Louis Touton; Mike
> Palage; Antonio Harris; icann board address
> Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue
>
> Marilyn and all assembly members,
>
>   Your of course very welcome Marilyn.  It is very important that
> accurate information is decimated when making such comments
> or statements.
>
>   In any event comparisons of a phone # listing and private information
> listed in WHOIS data are not really comparable, and therefore making
> such comparisons is felonious at best.  Same of course is true with
> property ownership listings.  Apples and tomatoes...
>
> Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
>
> > Jeff, thanks for  providing more accurate information about a practice in one state at least.  I wasn't aware of that but I am sure that residents of Texas appreciate it!  Marilyn
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 3:28 PM
> > To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
> > Cc: ga@dnso.org; Alexander Svensson; Dan Halloran; Louis Touton; Thomas
> > Roessler; Mike Palage; Antonio Harris
> > Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue
> >
> > Marilyn and all assembly members,
> >
> > Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
> >
> > > For those who want to be "unlisted" in the telephone white pages listing in the U.S., they pay a special fee.
> >
> >   This statement is incorrect of course.  Some states, such as Texas where
> > I reside the situation is just the opposite.  If you wish your phone number
> > to be listed in the white pages than you pay and additional monthly charge
> > that will appear on your phone bill every month.  My personal Phone
> > # is NOT listed as I did not opt-in to have it listed.  You may check
> > the Frisco Texas White pages to see for yourself of course.
> >
> > > There is no counterpart that I am aware of in the "yellow pages" which is businesses, institutions, organizations, and even individuals who advertise, who hold themselves out to communicate with the public through this medium.
> > >
> > > We really don't know at this  point FOR SURE how many registrants fit which category.  I strongly suspect that at least 80% of .com; .net; .org; .info; .biz are businesses, organizations, institutions, or entities/individuals who are buying names and holding them for resale/warehousing.  It is unclear how many registrants are "individuals"  in generic TLDs or in ccTLDS [Some ccTLDs don't accept ind. registration/others do].
> > >
> > > In any case, an analysis, even rough, of this breakdown would be useful information, even if estimated.
> > >
> > > The WHOIS TF co-chairs have asked the registrar/registry constituency representatives in the TF how they might provide even roughly responsive answers/statistics. This is a work in progress. Do not read into this request that the registries and registrars have agreed to any kind of analysis, only that that the request has been made inside the TF.
> > >
> > > Any analysis, or statistics would be greatly appreciated by the WHOIS TF as a more than useful data point... (s).
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: William X Walsh [mailto:william@wxsoft.info]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:29 AM
> > > To: William S. Lovell
> > > Cc: ga@dnso.org
> > > Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk Whois Data Issue
> > >
> > > Wednesday, Wednesday, April 17, 2002, 9:10:37 PM, William S. Lovell wrote:
> > >
> > > > Absurdity reaches new heights.  One can also keep one's name out of the
> > > > phone book by not having a phone, or out of the Motor Vehicle Department's
> > > > lists by having neither a driver's license nor a car. But both of those
> > > > entities
> > > > have procedures for protecting their user's privacy. The Internet, or indeed
> > > > a domain name, are rapidly becoming necessary parts of doing business, and
> > > > indeed a healthy means for self expression by private citizens. To
> > > > suggest that
> > > > one must necessarily give away all rights of privacy just because some
> > > > registrar
> > > > sees yet one more way to squeeze out a buck is unconscionable.
> > >
> > > Just as there are examples supporting your view, there are better
> > > ones supporting the opposite view.
> > >
> > > In the US, every state makes property ownership information available
> > > as a matter of public record.  They are required by statute to provide
> > > that information in bulk format for a fee, and there are companies out
> > > there who specialize in providing that data in a searchable and
> > > downloadable database format.
> > >
> > > You cannot own property without having it listed publicly.  If you
> > > want to own it and protect your privacy, it is entirely up to you to
> > > do what is necessary to do that, by forming a shell company for
> > > instance.
> > >
> > > Access to those databases are not expensive at all, as a matter of
> > > fact.
> > >
> > > When you own property, people have the right to be able to get that
> > > information.  The same with a domain name, which is the internet form
> > > of "property."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > William X Walsh <william@wxsoft.info>
> > > --
> > > Save Internet Radio!
> > > CARP will kill Webcasting!
> > > http://www.saveinternetradio.org/
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> > > --
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> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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