[ga] Re: At Large Membership Markle Meeting Report

[Bob Davis <bob.davis@netzero.net>]

Jeff,

 Thank you for including me on your response here Jeff.  It is always
a positive thing to be as inclusive as possible.

  Laura, I hope that in the future, you will share future information
with as wide of audience as possible.  I enjoyed your comments
here, and hope to be hearing more from you, as I am sure all
stakeholders would.  We [INEGroup] will be paying very close
attention.  Please include me in you mailing list in the future if
you would.

Jeff Williams wrote:

> Laura and all,
>
>   Thank you very much for your comments and dialoge here Laura,
> it is much appritiated by myself and I am sure with many of our
> [INEGroup's] members as well a the NCDNHC.
>
>   In your comments you did not address some of my questions
> directly that I had posed to Kathy and the NCDNH members
> very clearly.  So I woul like to ask some of them again so as to
> gain a more accurate understanding if I may.
>
>   One of my concerns as I am others have stated on many occasions
> is the limitation on the size of the ICANN Membership organization.
> What in your conversations with Kathy did you or anyone at the NCDNHC
> meeting in Los Angeles discuss along these lines?
>
>   Another of my questions (See below in my response to Kathy and
> this list) was, "Why were only some "Invited" groups allowed to attend?"
> And as a follow up to these two questions: Will in the future, these
> meeting be open to all whom wish to attend that have been involved in this
> process in the future?
>
>   In closing Laura, I want to thank you again for you interesting and
> somewhat informative response.  I look forward to your answers
> directly to my questions for our [INEGroup's] members, so that
> they may also be included and aware.
>
> Bailyn, Laura wrote:
>
> > Jeff and all,
> >
> > We thank Kathy for sharing the ncdnhc's and her own hopes for and concerns
> > about ICANN's At-Large membership.
> >
> > To clarify some confusion:  the conference call in which Kathy participated
> > was not an ICANN meeting but rather an informal, information-gathering
> > session organized by Common Cause as part of its independent effort to
> > observe and make recommendations regarding ICANN's At-Large Membership
> > formation and election procedures.  They're undertaking this project in
> > conjunction with CDT and other partners, with the support of the Markle
> > Foundation.
> >
> > Part of the group's observation and information-gathering efforts include
> > following the ncdnhc discussion list so that the crucial non-commercial
> > perspective within ICANN is better understood and accounted for in their
> > effort -- as well as reviewing all previous ICANN membership discussion
> > group lists, MAC reports and relevant Berkman archives.
> >
> > The session which Kathy described was not recorded.  It was not really
> > intended to solicit or produce new ideas or opinions about the At-Large
> > Membership.  Rather, it was simply an efficient and friendly way for some
> > new observers to process a wide range of views about the At-Large
> > membership.  Various perspectives were heard in separate sessions so that
> > each would have ample time to be heard.
> >
> > I hope that this is a helpful clarification and response to Kathy's question
> > as well.  Also, I would like to reiterate (as I had mentioned at the Los
> > Angeles ncdnhc meeting) that further information about the Markle Foundation
> > grant proposal application procedure can be found on our website,
> > www.markle.org.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Laura Bailyn
> > The Markle Foundation
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:52 PM
> > To: KathrynKL@aol.com
> > Cc: ncdnhc-discuss@lyris.isoc.org; abd@cdt.org; ashapiro@interport.net
> > Subject: Re: At Large Membership Markle Meeting Report
> >
> > Kathy and all,
> >
> >   Thank you for sharing this note with us, as I am sure it will be
> > helpful for some to get a idea anyway of how these meetings
> > were conducted and some ideas of what the ICANN membership
> > organization can or should be about.
> >
> >   In this light I have some comments and questions I would like
> > to share with everyone and especially with you.  (See more
> > specifically below your comments).
> >
> > KathrynKL@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry for delay in posting this report.
> > > About two weeks ago, I sent a note to this list asking for views on the At
> > > Large Membership.  Thanks to everyone who responded!  Your comments were
> > very
> > > helpful in the preparation of my remarks.
> > >
> > > What happened:  as you know the Markle Foundation has made a very large
> > grant
> > > directly to ICANN for organization of the At Large Membership.  At the
> > same
> > > time, the Markle Foundation has given grants to a set of organizations
> > > including CDT, Carter Center, Common Cause and American Libraries Assoc.
> > to
> > > help guide and advise it regarding the creation of the At Large
> > Membership.
> >
> >   I am somewhat puzzled as to why it is perceived and/or needed that
> > any large sum for the formation of the ICANN Membership Organization.
> > Didn't ICANN already have a Membership Discussion group sometime
> > back that was a mailing list (membership@icann.org)?  Shouldn't
> > it be incumbent that anyone and everyone should have had the opportunity
> > to participate in these discussions?  When and where did ICANN
> > announce and/or post any information about this meeting?  Why were
> > only some "Invited" groups allowed to attend?  Or was this even
> > so?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This group then arranged one day where it met in separate conference calls
> > > with representatives of the noncommercial community, and separately ICANN,
> > > the technical community and the business community.  I was part of the
> > first
> > > group, noncommercial, with people including Prof. Michael Froomkin, Prof.
> > > David Post, and Theresa Amato (nader's group) also asked to talk.
> >
> >   I am presuming you are talking about the meeting in LA??
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > We talked about our hope for and concerns about the At Large Membership.
> > > Overwhelmingly, we told the Markle group that we thought the barriers to
> > > joining the At Large membership should be low, but that the Membership
> > should
> > > be given lots of good, concise, and accurate summary materials regarding
> > the
> > > substantive issues that ICANN is dealing with at the time (materials which
> > do
> > > not now exist and are actually difficult to write well).
> >
> >   I believe there is some good and concise background information
> > in the Berkman Center archives of the ICANN Membership Discussion
> > list.  And there may likely still be some additional background in the
> > older comments@IANA.org as well, if I am not mistaken.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > We also overwhelmingly told the group that we thought the expectations of
> > the
> > > Membership were too great.  Based on the rhetoric we had heard, we felt
> > that
> > > the At Large Membership was being viewed as the magical piece of ICANN
> > which
> > > would make all other problems go away.
> >
> >   By "Too Great" what do you mean here specifically Kathy?  Are you
> > talking in terms of the size of the ICANN membership?  Or???
> >
> > > We pointed out that even if the
> > > Membership is well and carefully formed, protecting democratic principles
> > --
> > > and putting good practices into place -- remains a concern throughout
> > ICANN
> > > including in General Assembly and DNSO, in comment periods before the
> > ICANN
> > > Board, etc.
> >
> >   Good point, and yes, I believe this is certainly a serious concern,
> > especially
> > in terms of what has occurred of late on the DNSO lists and at the LA
> > meeting.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The noncommercial segment of the Markle At Large Meeting then ended and we
> > > visitors left the call.  I had earlier asked if I might stay and just
> > listen
> > > to the subsequent discussions of ICANN leaders and technical and business
> > (so
> > > I could let you know their views). I was told that only those groups
> > chosen
> > > by the Markle Foundation could participate in these discussions.
> >
> >   I think that not allowing anyone to continue to listen at least was
> > completely inappropriate, and engenders, or at least makes me believe
> > that the ICANN and now it seems the Markle Foundation is not to
> > be trusted as to accountability.  In other words, I smell a rat here.
> > I am sure this rat will appear sooner or later.  >:(
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Accordingly, I would like to ask if Andrew Shapiro of Markle or Alan
> > Davidson
> > > of CDT would like to share some of the thoughts they heard from other
> > > communities and their views of this meeting.
> >
> >   I would further like to ask if this conference call was recorded?
> > Otherwise
> > any information we receive from Andrew Shapiro is second hand, and less
> > reliable.  Isn't it in the ICANN bylaws that these meetings are supposed
> > to be recorded?  I believe it is.  And if I am not mistaken, they are
> > supposed to be published within 7? days...
> >
> > > Clearly, the At Large
> > > Membership is an area of concern to this Constituency.  Thanks for your
> > input
> > > and work in this area.  We understand that you will probably not respond
> > > until next week, after the Thanksgiving Holiday in the US.
> > >
> > > regards, kathy
> > >
> > > ---
> > > You are currently subscribed to ncdnhc-discuss as: Jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > leave-ncdnhc-discuss-1799I@lyris.isoc.org
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to ncdnhc-discuss as: laura_bailyn@markle.org
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > leave-ncdnhc-discuss-1799I@lyris.isoc.org
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to ncdnhc-discuss as: Jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ncdnhc-discuss-1799I@lyris.isoc.org
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman INEGroup (Over 95k members strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-447-1894
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Bob Davis...

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