Re: [ga] Domain names as observed (was Tucows Response to Cochet tiTransfer Letter)

["L Gallegos" <jandl@jandl.com>]

Bottom line, for our registry anyway, is that as long as fees are 
paid, it takes a court order to revoke a domain - as long as we have 
our operations in the US.  I suppose that registries that are off-
shore can operate differently.  We work to protect registrants, not 
disenfranchise them.

Nite all.

Leah


On 29 Jul 2001, at 0:56, Jeff Williams wrote:

> Leah and all assembly members,
> 
> L Gallegos wrote:
> 
> > On 28 Jul 2001, at 21:27, William S. Lovell wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > L Gallegos wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joop, may I say once again that there are no "property" rights
> > > > in a domain name itself.  Rights in the use of the name are
> > > > conferred by the registrar/registrant agreement and that is
> > > > where a registrant should look prior to registering the domain. 
> > > > However, just because a domain name is not property, per se, it
> > > > does not mean that there are no rights in it.  Again, those
> > > > rights are determined by the registration agreement and can
> > > > differ from registry to registry.
> > > >
> > > > Leah
> > >
> > > I would have to disagree with this entirely.  To say that "rights
> > > in the use of the name are conferred by the registrar/registrant
> > > agreement" would imply that the registrar had rights to confer,
> > > which it does not. Rights to the use of the registrar's facilities
> > > are what are conferred by that agreement, without regard to the
> > > domain name itself which, if created ("conceived," "invented,"
> > > etc.) by the registrant, could only be the intellectual property
> > > of that registrant.   I realize, of course, that these agreements
> > > say otherwise, but it is fundamental to the law that one cannot
> > > convey what one does not own, so any portion of any document that
> > > pretends to say otherwise would be null and void on its face.  Too
> > > bad no one has the wherewithal (or the ***) to prove that.
> >
> > Since what you are contracting for is a registration (a service),
> > the registry/registrar can set conditions for the use and term of
> > that registration.
> 
>   No they can't entirely.  The use of any Domain Name and the content
> that may be a part of that use is strictly the "Domain" of the
> registrant under US law.
> 
> >  It is not ownership of the name itself in any case.  It
> > is a service provided under certain conditions.  Whether that
> > service can be cancelled for whatever reasons stated in the
> > agreement is dependent on that agreement.
> 
>   That agreement must meet in the US anyway, any and all legal
>   requirements
> as proscribed by the GATT agreements, the NAFTA trade accords, civil
> liberties statutes, as well as contract law.  ICANN's current
> registration agreements are currently under some pressure in several
> of these areas of law presently.  WIPO/ICANN's UDRp also has some
> serious flaws along these lines as well in a international scope.
> 
> >  Cancellation of the
> > service would amount to revokation of the use of the domain name.
> 
>   This is one of several reasons why we [INEGroup] are strong
> believers if a SROOTS and Shared registry system where no single
> registry or root structure could negatively impact ecommerce by way of
> Domain Name revocation under these potential circumstances from
> occurring.
> 
> >
> >
> > In any case, a registrant should not have to be concerned about
> > whether he will have the use of the domain.  Unless the law has been
> > broken in some way and and a court order is issued to revoke the use
> > of the name, the legitimate registrant would have the use of the
> > domain.
> >
> > A property manager for an apartment complex does not
> > necessarily own the complex, but has the rights to lease
> > apartments within that property.  The tenant does not own the
> > apartment, but does have whatever rights are conferred under the
> > lease agreement.  He may or may not be able to sublet the apartment,
> > sell, will or trade his rights in the lease contract, use it for
> > something other than his domicile, etc.  It would all depend on the
> > lease contract.  As long as the tenant continues to pay his "rent"
> > and/or fees and does not violate the terms of the lease agreement,
> > he has the right to enjoy the use of that apartment.
> >
> > I don't see a registration as anything different, really, except
> > that there is no physical property involved, but just a contract for
> > a service.
> >
> > Leah
> >
> > >
> > > IAAL; this is not legal advice but a scholarly observation.
> > >
> > > Bill Lovell
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 29 Jul 2001, at 0:30, Joop Teernstra wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At 22:37 27/07/2001 -0400, L Gallegos wrote:
> > > > > >   Registrants, IMO, should be able to feel
> > > > > >secure in the use of a registered domain.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am glad to hear you say that. :-)
> > > > > As far as is legally proper, in the interest of the Domain
> > > > > Holders but also of the stability of the DNS, they should *be*
> > > > > secure. Any argument that Domain Names are not the
> > > > > registrant's property, to dispose or transfer as the
> > > > > registrant sees fit, serves to destabilize the DNS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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> 


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