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Re: [registrars] Interesting quote from Melbourne IT in todays papers in Australia.
On 2001/05/17, Larry Erlich wrote:
> Eric Schaetzlein wrote:
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > I don't think the thick registry is the problem. It makes perfectly
> > sense to store that information in a central place, that's what a registry
> > is good for.
> >
> > On the other hand it should be defined by contract who "owns" the customer,
> > and that's clearly the registrar.
>
> Eric,
>
> There is a saying in this country:
>
> "Possession is 9/10 of the law"
Yes, and someone said "control is better than trust" ;-)
> That's the way I see it in this case.
>
> It is better for the registrars to control the data,
> and have the registry point to the appropriate
> registrar as is the case with the thin registry
> Then, the registrar can make sure the
> right thing happens, and can additionally take steps
> to control abuse.
If registrars can take steps to control abuse, why can't the registry?
You know how unrealistic it is to force 100+ registrars to comply in a uniform way.
If you manage to get it right centralized at the registry level, it's more realistic.
Just the question how you can "control" the registry.
> An argument can be made that this
> could be done at the registry level, but I don't agree
> that it would give us the proper comfort level.
Do you think all Registries must be as "evil" as "the" big one?
> The central whois is a requirement of the IP community
> to make their jobs easier, and registrars who want
> to have smoother registrar transfers. The spammers
> and telemarketers have also "voted" for it. I can tell
> you from personal experience that we don't like
> receiving phone calls all day long from people
> who have our phone number from when it appeared
> in the NSI database pre-competition.
You will have a uniform whois sooner or later, be it at the registry
or registrars level.
I don't think spamming and telemarketing depends on the thick/thin model.
What we were concerned first was Melbourne IT's (the registries) philosophy
of what they can do with the data, and that of course depends of the thick/thin model.
> > I heard that .pro will also introduce a directory lookup service
> > ("give me all lawyers in Germany")
>
> Well, I know you are just giving an example of
> a usage but I don't think that should be the
> function of the whois.
No, I just wanted to state that other registries also consider creating
value-added services ontop of their registry business using our customers
information!
> And if we take that example
> who does it serve? Who needs a list of all
> the lawyers in Germany? A telemarketer or a spammer
> most likely.
Well - I could use a list of Lawyers located in Karlsruhe, Germany. ;-)
> Regards, Larry Erlich
Best regards
Eric
>
> http://www.DomainRegistry.com
>
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> > On 2001/05/09, Larry Erlich wrote:
> > > Rob Hall wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In todays "The Australian", Melbourne IT chief executive officer
> > > > Adrian Kloeden said,
> > > >
> > > > NeuLevel won the rights to be the registry for the .biz web suffix
> > > > last year.
> > > >
> > > > The NeuLevel deal facilitates Melbourne IT's move into the lucrative
> > > > web registry space. It also enables Melbourne IT to act as a data
> > > > aggregator.
> > > >
> > > > "With biz.com, we will be controlling all of the data that comes to
> > > > us," he said. "People registering with .biz do so because they want to
> > > > be found. It's basically the equivalent of the Yellow Pages."
> > >
> > > This is what you get with a thick registry.
> > >
> > > We are not registrars, just order takers.
> > > The gatekeeper is Neulevel. If the quote in the article is correct,
> > > Neulevel basically believes they own the customer.
> > >
> > > I am sure that as part of the registry-registrar agreement,
> > > we will have to indemnify Neulevel against any customer lawsuits,
> > > and since they will be retaining the data, they will most certainly
> > > get sued at some point.
> > >
> > > The registrar ("order taker") will have to indemnify them
> > > for all costs in defending any lawsuits (in addition to the
> > > registrar's own costs in defending the same suit.)
> > > With a thin registry (as with NSI) we still have to indemnify,
> > > but there is less of a chance of a lawsuit since they don't retain
> > > any data or have any relationship with the
> > > customer registering the name.
> > >
> > > But I'm not an attorney. Michael(s), your opinion?
> > >
> > > Larry Erlich
> > >
> > > http://www.DomainRegistry.com
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I find it interesting that Melbourne IT is claiming control of all the
> > > > data submitted to the .biz registry. This causes me concern, and I
> > > > hope that the Neulevel CEO clears up this with Michael ASAP.
> > > >
> > > > Rob.
> > > >
> > > > Here is the entire article:
> > > >
> > > > Melb IT sacrifices for future of the .biz
> > > > Penny Brown
> > > > 09 May 2001
> > > >
> > > > MELBOURNE IT will sacrifice earnings in 2001-02 for a stake of up to
> > > > 30 per cent in its joint venture NeuLevel, operator of the new web
> > > > suffix .biz.
> > > >
> > > > Melbourne IT yesterday agreed to pay $6 million cash for a 10 per cent
> > > > stake in NeuLevel after finalising negotiations with US telco NeuStar,
> > > > its joint venture partner.
> > > >
> > > > It has an option to increase its interest to 30 per cent, for an
> > > > estimated $12 million plus a cost of capital charge, by September
> > > > 2001.
> > > >
> > > > "It is likely that we will have a short-term EBIT loss," Melbourne IT
> > > > chief executive officer Adrian Kloeden said.
> > > >
> > > > "There will be front-end costs, such as software, hardware and
> > > > marketing costs, associated with establishing the biz.com platform."
> > > > Mr Kloeden said the investment would hurt the company's EBIT in the
> > > > first two years but would make money in the long term.
> > > >
> > > > NeuLevel won the rights to be the registry for the .biz web suffix
> > > > last year.
> > > >
> > > > The NeuLevel deal facilitates Melbourne IT's move into the lucrative
> > > > web registry space. It also enables Melbourne IT to act as a data
> > > > aggregator.
> > > >
> > > > Eventually, Melbourne IT would offer services similar to City Search's
> > > > business directory, Mr Kloeden said.
> > > >
> > > > "With biz.com, we will be controlling all of the data that comes to
> > > > us," he said. "People registering with .biz do so because they want to
> > > > be found. It's basically the equivalent of the Yellow Pages."
> > > >
> > > > Melbourne IT shares fell 1c to 88c.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rob Hall voice (613) 768-5100
> > > > President fax (613) 820-0777
> > > > Momentous.ca Corp.
> > > > rob@momentous.ca www.momentous.ca
> > > >
> > > > iti,s
> > >
> > > --
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
> > > 215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > --
> > Eric Schaetzlein Schlund + Partner AG Tel: +49 721 91374 50
> > Leiter Domain Services Erbprinzenstr. 4-12 Fax: +49 721 91374 20
> > D-76133 Karlsruhe Mail: eric@schlund.de
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
> 215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Eric Schaetzlein
--
Eric Schaetzlein Schlund + Partner AG Tel: +49 721 91374 50
Leiter Domain Services Erbprinzenstr. 4-12 Fax: +49 721 91374 20
D-76133 Karlsruhe Mail: eric@schlund.de
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