Re: [registrars] Whois expiration dates

[Mike Lampson <lampson@iaregistry.com>]

>  Registrars should actually be nice enuf to add that year explicitly at
the
> time of ACKING the trfer request

Bhavin,

I do not believe that this is possible for 2 reasons:
  1) Changes are prohibited after a Transfer request has been initiated.
For example, if you try to change a domain's DNS servers or status after a
Transfer request has been sent, an RRP 553 error occurs.
  2) A explicit Renew has a grace period of 5 days.  So if a Transfer is
ACK'ed less than 5 days after the explicit Renew occurs, the renewal is
taken away.

Face it, the RRP was designed to allow Transfers during the 45 days after
expiration.  And it was designed to fairly return auto-renewal fees to the
losing Registrar when the name wasn't renewed with that Registrar.  There
are only 3 options here:

1) Registrars must allow Transfers after expiration without charging the
customer a renewal fee.  (Note I say RENEWAL fee.)
 - or -
2) Registrars must NACK Transfers for domains that are renewed after their
expiration date for a period of 45 days after the original expiration date.
 - or -
3) Verisign must eliminate the refund of the Auto-renewal fee and
subtraction of the reneal year after a domain is transferred away to support
Registrars' current policies of requiring an old-Registrar renewal before
allowing a Transfer.

Regards,

Mike Lampson
The Registry at Info Avenue, LLC


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavin Turakhia" <bhavin.t@directi.com>
To: "Tom D'Alleva" <tdalleva@bulkregister.com>; <registrars@dnso.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [registrars] Whois expiration dates


Hi Tom,

i believe this is not the issue with NSI updating the dates - any domain
transferred during AUTO-RENEW period always loses the year that was added
due to auto-renew

Registrars should actually be nice enuf to add that year explicitly at the
time of ACKING the trfer request

bhavin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> Behalf Of Tom D'Alleva
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:15 PM
> To: registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Whois expiration dates
>
>
> Bruce,
> Mike's theory is very close to reality. The only point he missed
> is that NSI
> does not update the expiration date for 60 days not 45 days.  That means
> that customers that pay NSI to renew their names must wait an
> additional 60
> days before attempting to transfer or else the expiration date is not
> correctly updated, resulting in the loss of a year.
>
> This problem was reported to ICANN by a customer and forwardedto both you
> and I by Ken Stubbs a FEW months ago. I'm attaching the email thread to
> refresh your memory.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom D'Alleva" <tdalleva@bulkregister.com>
> To: "Ken Stubbs" <kstubbs@digitel.net>; "Beckwith, Bruce"
> <bbeckwith@netsol.com>
> Cc: <ross@tucows.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:23 PM
> Subject: RE: Domain Renewal / Transfer between registrars problem
>
>
> > Ken and Bruce,
> > I was just informed by my support staff that this situation occurs
> regularly
> > with NSI.  If a registrant pays to renew their registration and then
> > transfers out within a 45 day time frame, Network Solution does
> not update
> > the renewal date at the registry.  If this, in fact, is NSI
> policy, then I
> > believe that the only solution lies with ICANN or the courts.  I'm not
> sure
> > if this is one of the issues that Ross is working on regarding transfers
> but
> > it should be.
> >
> > If this is not the case, then I'm willing to do whatever is needed to
> > address these unique aberrations.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ken Stubbs [mailto:kstubbs@digitel.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:24 PM
> > > To: Beckwith, Bruce; tdalleva@bulkregister.com
> > > Subject: Fw: Domain Renewal / Transfer between registrars problem
> > >
> > >
> > > hapy new years guys...
> > >
> > > i received this in my capacity as names council rep and am
> > > fowarding this to
> > > you guys "off list" .
> > >
> > > in the hope that we can get this guy's problems clarified & resolved.
> > >
> > > please advise me as to what we can do collectively to make this "go
> away"
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > ken
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <xxxxxxxxxx to protect the customer>
> > > To: <kstubbs@dninet.net>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:14 PM
> > > Subject: Domain Renewal / Transfer between registrars problem
> > >
> > >
> > > > I don't know if I'm asking the right person or not.  If not, please
> > > > point me in the right direction.
> > > >
> > > > Both registrars involved suggested I contact the "global registry"
> > > > with this problem:
> > > >
> > > > The domain name air1wireless.com had expired 21-Dec-2001.  As
> > > > a result, it was "locked".  We paid Network Solutions $35 to renew
> > > > it for one year.  After the renewal was complete, and the domain
> > > > was unlocked, we transfered it to BulkRegister.  Part of the
> > > > agreement we have with BulkRegister is any domain name we
> > > > transfer to them gets automatically extended by one year.  After
> > > > the transfer to BulkRegister was complete, we noticed the
> > > > additional year had not been added.
> > > >
> > > > We contacted BulkRegister.  They told us that when they received
> > > > the domain, it was set to expire 21-Dec-2001, and they added a
> > > > year, extending it to 21-Dec-2002.  We then contacted Network
> > > > Solutions, who told us that they had renewed it for one
> year prior to
> > > > the transfer.  To document this, they faxed us a copy of the receipt
> > > > showing the renewal.
> > > >
> > > > I then went back to BulkRegister.  They once again informed me
> > > > that they had renewed it for one year, and it was now set to expire
> > > > 21-Dec-2002.
> > > >
> > > > I was then told that I should "verify with the global
> registry", which
> > > > is where I hope I am now.  I found plenty of information on domain
> > > > name disputes, but nothing on expiration date disputes.  I hope
> > > > you can help me.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
>
> Needless to say, this practice not only creates a customer support problem
> for the gaining registrar but it adds to the general distrust and
> demise of
> the domain name industry.
>
> Tom
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> > Behalf Of Beckwith, Bruce
> > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 2:27 PM
> > To: registrars@dnso.org
> > Subject: RE: [registrars] Whois expiration dates
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Your theory is interesting, but unfortunately, not based on fact.
> >
> > Though we believe that our engineers are unrivaled, we find that being
> > human, they do make mistakes sometimes.  The issues experienced
> with these
> > few domains were due to a software bug, which was unintentional (by
> > definition).  Though the bug was corrected shortly after it was
> introduced
> > and found, the fact that it had affected several domains was not
> > discovered
> > until I was recently given a heads-up by our good friends at
> Register.com.
> > As I've stated earlier, this issue is on the engineering queue to be
> > resolved in the near term.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Lampson [mailto:lampson@iaregistry.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:22 PM
> > To: registrars@dnso.org
> > Subject: Re: [registrars] Whois expiration dates
>
> > Bruce,
> >
> > Upon further discussion in our office, we have a theory.  Maybe you can
> > confirm or refute it.
> >
> > When a name is past expiration at VeriSign, the customer has to renew it
> > with you before it can be Transferred to another Registrar.  The
> > 3 instances
> > that we have seen in the past 2 weeks have all been names that
> we tried to
> > Transfer, were Nacked because were past expiration, then renewed by the
> > current Registrant/Administrator.  The expiration date then seems to
> > disappear from Whois.
> >
> > At least 1 of these names we tried to Transfer again at this point.  The
> > Transfer was ACK'ed at VeriSign and the Transfer completed.  Of
> course the
> > customer lost their year of renewal since the domain was not
> more than 45
> > days past its original expiration date (the grace period for
> > auto-renewals).
> >
> > We haven't confirmed this yet, but we were wondering if the
> > expiration date
> > would reappear on the 46th day past the original expiration
> date when the
> > Transfer could be done without the customer losing their renewal year?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mike Lampson
> > The Registry at Info Avenue, LLC
> >
>
>