Re: [registrars] Ballot should not be secret until the end of the voting period.

["Robert F. Connelly" <rconnell@psi-japan.com>]

At 10:18 AM 3/15/03 -0500, Ross Wm. Rader wrote:
> > the closing of the ballot.  That is the primary reason I object to it. The
> > ballot should be secret until the end of the voting period.
>
>Hasn't it been our past practice that ballots have been undertaken openly in
>the past? (open during the term of the ballot I mean)

Dear Ross:  As I stated in my prior posting, there was *no* access to the 
results until the ballot was closed.

Let me give you a bit of history.  The Policy Advisory Body (PAB) was 
created along with the Policy Oversight Committee (POC) with the signing of 
the IAHC gTLD MoU on 1 May 1997.  All signers of the MoU were eligible to 
be members of PAB.  Through a convoluted process, Antony Van Couvering was 
elected Chair, Rick Wesson Vice Chair and I was elected Secretary.  As I 
remember it, members were asked to send their votes to two independent 
members, I think they were Amadeu and I.  Each of us printed out the votes 
and independently counted them and compared notes.  To say it was difficult 
would be an understatement;-{

The next time there was to be a vote, Dan volunteered to run a 
votebot.  Dave Crocker was so impressed with Dan's system that he suggested 
that Dan write an RFC for it:-)

I ran the elections for PAB.  Subsequently I ran them for CORE.  I never 
asked Dan to reveal the vote *prior_to* the closing.  There was and is no 
external access to the results.  On at least one occasion, I asked Dan how 
many votes had been cast, I think that was during the time I was on the 
CORE Excom.  But I certainly never had the temerity to ask Dan for a peek 
at the results prior to the closing.

I think the Boardroom should be asked whether they can configure their 
system that way.  If they can, we should have them do so.  Under such 
conditions, I would withdraw my objection.  OTOH, I find it cumbersome to 
have to look up the password every time there is to be a vote.  I have 
received four passwords and three logins from Boardroom in the past and it 
is confusing.

If you're still there after this epistle, thanks for listening:-)

Regards, BobC

P.S.  Here are the pertinent portions of my prior posting:

At 09:12 AM 3/11/03 -0800, Rick Wesson wrote:
>  Not only was the email based Votebot more cumbersome it was up to the 
> excom to tally the vote and could be easily manipulated.

Dear Rick: .

[Second transmission, additions in square brackets.]

Dan's system is/was totally done *automatically* for Excom and the full PAB 
membership with no hand work for anyone.  Further, the results were there 
for all to see and verify -- for months or years at a time.  Here are the 
results of a CORE votebot from Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:41:29 -0700 (PDT):

         http://core.beach.net/votes/0006/

Click on "Finance WG Charter" and you see who voted for what:

         http://core.beach.net/votes/0006/6-0.html

Now, what makes you think the Excom could manipulate that vote?

And since when is $250/month less expensive than $100/ballot?  We don't 
have more than four or five votebots per *year*.

I totally disagree with you, Rick.

[Dan advises that he either offered you the software or actually gave it to 
you -- gratis.  The system was/is very good, much better and user friendly 
than Boardroom's.]

[Further, I heartily object to the Boardroom's practice of permitting any 
participant to sign in and see what *everyone* has voted 
*prior_to_the_close" of the vote.  That is intolerable.]

[Dan's votebot system lets us all see what the votes were -- *after* the 
close of the vote.  Contrary to your statement, Excom could not 
"manipulate" the vote.  I was Secretary of PAB and I also ran the Votebots 
under CORE's Excom.  I would never ever think of trying to determine what 
the vote was prior to the closing*.  But the members could see who voted 
for which side of the issue after the closing.  Had there been any 
"manipulation" by *anyone*, it would be exposed by checking the list.]

Sincerely, BobC

[* Footnote:  The one thing I would do was ask Dan how many votes had been 
receive in case there was a need to "tickle" our members and remind them to 
vote.]



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A man convinced against his will,
  Is of the same opinion still:-("

Dr. Bray attributed that statement to the Talmud.

I have never verified his attribution.   But it sure describes President 
Chirac.

"My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts:-("

"Reason?  Reason?  There's no darned reason, it's just Policy!"