Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue

["Elliot Noss" <enoss@tucows.com>]

(apologies to all who, like me, are on  this deeeeeeeeep cc list)

After seeing a number of these bulk whois posts it has been made clear to me
what an interesting place Texas is. It appears the only thing one is legally
entitled to know about someone else is whether they are carrying a GUN, as
THAT must be clearly diplayed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Don Brown" <donbrown_l@inetconcepts.net>
Cc: <ga@dnso.org>; "Don Evans" <DEvans@doc.gov>; "Dan halloran"
<halloran@icann.org>; "Karen Rose" <krose@ntia.doc.gov>; "kathy smith"
<ksmith@ntia.doc.gov>; "Nancy J. Victory" <nvictory@ntia.doc.gov>; "Stuart
Lynn" <lynn@icann.org>; "Steven Wernikoff" <swernikoff@ftc.gov>; "Ted
Kassinger" <TKassinger@doc.gov>; "Thomas King" <Thomas.King@usdoj.gov>;
"vint Cerf" <vinton.g.cerf@wcom.com>; "vinton g. cerf - ISOC"
<vcerf@MCI.NET>; "wendy mcauliffe" <wendy_mcauliffe@zdnet.com>; "Whois"
<uwho@lists.research.netsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue


> Don and all assembly members,
>
> Don Brown wrote:
>
> > O.K.  Let's see.  If you have the license plate number, you can look
> > up the owner.
>
>   Not in Texas unless you are a member of law enforcement and have
> a need to know, such as a potential traffic violation in progress, ect...
> Same in California, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri,
> Georgia, and I believe also Nevada.
>
> >  If you have the driver license number, you can look up
> > the owner.
>
>   Again not in Texas or California unless you are a member of law
> enforcement without the drivers license holders expressed written
> permission.
>
> >  If you have the property address, you can look up the
> > owner.
>
>   Again not true in 11 states, including Texas in some instances...
>
> >  I'm not totally sure about SS number, but I wouldn't doubt if
> > a database is available on the net, as well.  If you have the phone
> > number, even in some cases where they have not opted in, in TX, you can
> > look up the owner.
>
>   Yes in some states this is true.  In many countries it is not true...
>
> >
> >
> > Are we getting bundled up in our socks over the confidentiality of the
> > Registrant of a domain name?  Really?  Well, let's not.
>
>   I respectfully disagree.  I am not interested in again going to court
> over identity theft like I had to do in 1989.  I am not interested in
having
> myself or my daughters stalked due to some "Control Freak" Nut Job
> looking up on WHOIS my name and finding personal private information
> listed for me to make such a situation much easier for that "Control
Freak"
> Nut Job to do...
>
> >
> >
> > Is this other information comparable to the available information
> > about the registrant of a domain name?
>
>   No it is not..  (See above again)
>
> > Is the Pope Catholic?
>
>   No he is Polish.  >;)
>
> > Of course
> > it is!  It is, indeed, the same kind of personal information one would
> > find about the owner of a license plate, driver license, etc.
>
>   Again not correct Don.  See above...  See state statutes for Texas,
> California, Georgia, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, ect, ect...
>
> >
> >
> > However, my registration of a domain name is one heck of a lot more
> > trivial than my license plate, driver license, social security number
> > or the appraised value (yep, that's there, too) of my property.
>
>   But neither the license plate, driver license, social security number
> are as easily accessible as a Whois listing by name or Domain Name.
>
> >
> >
> > I think some are hunting mosquitos with 00 buck shot rather than
> > living in the real world. There is no confidentially issue here which
> > will harelip the Governor, so let's move on.
>
>   Well Don you wayyy off base.  Again see above...  <sigh>
>
> >
> >
> > Saturday, April 20, 2002, 6:26:27 PM, Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
<mcade@att.com> wrote:
> > CMSL> Jeff, do elaborate on the differences on what is listed in a
"white pages" listing and WHOIS.
> >
> > CMSL> In white pages, name, address and telephone number is the typical
listing. [unless there is an opt out, or situation Jeff described for Texas
which requires opt in].
> >
> > CMSL> What is the difference with WHOIS listings?
> >
> > CMSL> -----Original Message-----
> > CMSL> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > CMSL> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:25 PM
> > CMSL> To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
> > CMSL> Cc: ga@dnso.org; Alexander Svensson; Dan Halloran; Louis Touton;
Mike
> > CMSL> Palage; Antonio Harris; icann board address
> > CMSL> Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue
> >
> > CMSL> Marilyn and all assembly members,
> >
> > CMSL>   Your of course very welcome Marilyn.  It is very important that
> > CMSL> accurate information is decimated when making such comments
> > CMSL> or statements.
> >
> > CMSL>   In any event comparisons of a phone # listing and private
information
> > CMSL> listed in WHOIS data are not really comparable, and therefore
making
> > CMSL> such comparisons is felonious at best.  Same of course is true
with
> > CMSL> property ownership listings.  Apples and tomatoes...
> >
> > CMSL> Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
> >
> > >> Jeff, thanks for  providing more accurate information about a
practice in one state at least.  I wasn't aware of that but I am sure that
residents of Texas appreciate it!  Marilyn
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> > >> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 3:28 PM
> > >> To: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA
> > >> Cc: ga@dnso.org; Alexander Svensson; Dan Halloran; Louis Touton;
Thomas
> > >> Roessler; Mike Palage; Antonio Harris
> > >> Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk WHOIS Data Issue
> > >>
> > >> Marilyn and all assembly members,
> > >>
> > >> Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > For those who want to be "unlisted" in the telephone white pages
listing in the U.S., they pay a special fee.
> > >>
> > >>   This statement is incorrect of course.  Some states, such as Texas
where
> > >> I reside the situation is just the opposite.  If you wish your phone
number
> > >> to be listed in the white pages than you pay and additional monthly
charge
> > >> that will appear on your phone bill every month.  My personal Phone
> > >> # is NOT listed as I did not opt-in to have it listed.  You may check
> > >> the Frisco Texas White pages to see for yourself of course.
> > >>
> > >> > There is no counterpart that I am aware of in the "yellow pages"
which is businesses, institutions, organizations, and even individuals who
advertise, who hold themselves out to communicate with
> > >> the public through this medium.
> > >> >
> > >> > We really don't know at this  point FOR SURE how many registrants
fit which category.  I strongly suspect that at least 80% of .com; .net;
.org; .info; .biz are businesses, organizations,
> > >> institutions, or entities/individuals who are buying names and
holding them for resale/warehousing.  It is unclear how many registrants are
"individuals"  in generic TLDs or in ccTLDS [Some ccTLDs
> > >> don't accept ind. registration/others do].
> > >> >
> > >> > In any case, an analysis, even rough, of this breakdown would be
useful information, even if estimated.
> > >> >
> > >> > The WHOIS TF co-chairs have asked the registrar/registry
constituency representatives in the TF how they might provide even roughly
responsive answers/statistics. This is a work in progress. Do
> > >> not read into this request that the registries and registrars have
agreed to any kind of analysis, only that that the request has been made
inside the TF.
> > >> >
> > >> > Any analysis, or statistics would be greatly appreciated by the
WHOIS TF as a more than useful data point... (s).
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: William X Walsh [mailto:william@wxsoft.info]
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:29 AM
> > >> > To: William S. Lovell
> > >> > Cc: ga@dnso.org
> > >> > Subject: Re: [ga] Bulk Whois Data Issue
> > >> >
> > >> > Wednesday, Wednesday, April 17, 2002, 9:10:37 PM, William S. Lovell
wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Absurdity reaches new heights.  One can also keep one's name out
of the
> > >> > > phone book by not having a phone, or out of the Motor Vehicle
Department's
> > >> > > lists by having neither a driver's license nor a car. But both of
those
> > >> > > entities
> > >> > > have procedures for protecting their user's privacy. The
Internet, or indeed
> > >> > > a domain name, are rapidly becoming necessary parts of doing
business, and
> > >> > > indeed a healthy means for self expression by private citizens.
To
> > >> > > suggest that
> > >> > > one must necessarily give away all rights of privacy just because
some
> > >> > > registrar
> > >> > > sees yet one more way to squeeze out a buck is unconscionable.
> > >> >
> > >> > Just as there are examples supporting your view, there are better
> > >> > ones supporting the opposite view.
> > >> >
> > >> > In the US, every state makes property ownership information
available
> > >> > as a matter of public record.  They are required by statute to
provide
> > >> > that information in bulk format for a fee, and there are companies
out
> > >> > there who specialize in providing that data in a searchable and
> > >> > downloadable database format.
> > >> >
> > >> > You cannot own property without having it listed publicly.  If you
> > >> > want to own it and protect your privacy, it is entirely up to you
to
> > >> > do what is necessary to do that, by forming a shell company for
> > >> > instance.
> > >> >
> > >> > Access to those databases are not expensive at all, as a matter of
> > >> > fact.
> > >> >
> > >> > When you own property, people have the right to be able to get that
> > >> > information.  The same with a domain name, which is the internet
form
> > >> > of "property."
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Best regards,
> > >> > William X Walsh <william@wxsoft.info>
> > >> > --
> > >> > Save Internet Radio!
> > >> > CARP will kill Webcasting!
> > >> > http://www.saveinternetradio.org/
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > >> > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > >> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > >> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > >> > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > >> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > >> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> --
> > >> Jeffrey A. Williams
> > >> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > >> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > >> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > >> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > >> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > >> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> > CMSL> Regards,
> > CMSL> --
> > CMSL> Jeffrey A. Williams
> > CMSL> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > CMSL> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > CMSL> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > CMSL> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > CMSL> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > CMSL> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> > CMSL> --
> > CMSL> This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > CMSL> Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > CMSL> ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > CMSL> Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> >
> > ----
> > Don Brown - Dallas, Texas USA     Internet Concepts, Inc.
> > donbrown_l@inetconcepts.net         http://www.inetconcepts.net
> > PGP Key ID: 04C99A55              (972) 788-2364  Fax: (972) 788-5049
> > Providing Internet Solutions Worldwide - An eDataWeb Affiliate
> > ----
> >
> > --
> > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>

--
This message was passed to you via the ga-full@dnso.org list.
Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga-full" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html