Re: [ga] Re: Transfers: Apparent Authority Discussion

["Elliot Noss" <enoss@tucows.com>]

Jeff:

You misunderstand my comments. I agree with all you say below. When I talk
of Ross "figuring you out" I mean that in a very positive way, as opposed to
misinterpreting you, which may have lead you to infer rancor.

Hope this helps.

Regards

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Elliot Noss" <enoss@tucows.com>
Cc: "Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com>; "gen full" <ga-full@dnso.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Transfers: Apparent Authority Discussion


> Elliot and Ross,
>
>   Elliot, first off I would appreciate these or any comments dealing
> with actual DNSO and DNSO GA business to be kept on list.
> So I am responding here back to the GA in my following response...
>
>   I, and quite a number of our members have been very supportive
> os several ideas that Ross has put forth in the past.  I just can't
> figure out why he has such rancor towards myself and on occasions
> towards our members.  I and a number of our members are also
> not sure if Ross or tucows is on the side of the registrants or
> the registrars in what he says below or not.  Hence my specific
> clarification (below ) and "Please Advise"... ???
>
> Elliot Noss wrote:
>
> > now thats karma. you figure jeff out for once and all and he heartily
> > supports you!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: "Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com>
> > Cc: "gen full" <ga-full@dnso.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 4:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Transfers: Apparent Authority Discussion
> >
> > > Ross and all assembly members,
> > >
> > > Ross Wm. Rader wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we're diving down into semantic extremely quickly (I
think) - to
> > > > circle back, why is AA "a bad thing" and what is the
counter-proposal
> > that
> > > > replaces it with a "good thing"?
> > >
> > >   I agree with you here also Ross if you mean or are in around about
way
> > > suggesting that a counter-proposal would include specific language
> > > that "AA" ( Apparent Authority) resides with the Registrant, NOT
> > > the Registrar or the Registry for any specific Domain Name...
> > > If not, than we, and all of our members that are your, and other
> > registrars
> > > customers are decidedly NOT in agreement...  Please advise.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Not being a lawyer, perhaps I'm failing to
> > > > grasp the significance of some small nuance here, and if that is the
> > case, I
> > > > will certainly defer. *But*, I still believe that the draft that is
on
> > the
> > > > table is pretty responsible with the exception of the EA definition.
> > And, as
> > > > much as I would like to continue this discussion, I fail to see
where it
> > > > solves the portability issue that has been hanging around for the
last
> > > > umpteen months.
> > > >
> > > > The fact is that (tens of thousands of) registrants that *have been
> > validly
> > > > identified as being legitimately representative of the interests of
the
> > > > registrant* are finding it difficult, if not impossible, to move
domain
> > > > names away from a registrar to one that better suits their taste. It
is
> > > > certainly my view that this is the complete scope of the problem
that
> > must
> > > > be fixed - and, no one to date has been able to convincingly
demonstrate
> > > > otherwise.
> > >
> > >   Very much agreed here.  This is also true to an extent with Delete
> > > as well...
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, if this is the case, then why have we spent over a year on an
issue
> > > > (elapsed DNSO time, not elapsed NC time) that can be very simply
fixed
> > by
> > > > removing the loophole in the contract that allows precious few
> > registrars to
> > > > play games and wreak havoc on their registrants?
> > >
> > >   A very good question here as well Ross.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Another challenge for the GA - read the registrar constituency
proposal
> > that
> > > > has been on the table since October. (you can find it here
> > > > http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/nc-transfer/Arc00/msg00152.html). If
the
> > > > consensus is that it sucks and needs to be scrapped and/or
significantly
> > > > modified, or even slightly improved - then let's discuss that. If
this
> > > > doesn't sound reasonable, then produce a counter-proposal and get it
> > into
> > > > Dan's hands. Individual proposals carry just as much weight as those
> > > > generated by groups at this point - the key is to get to the ideas,
not
> > > > debate which "idea" has more support*. The alternative to an
effective
> > DNSO
> > > > consensus policy process determining what happens on this issue is
that
> > the
> > > > registrars take the proposal off the table, abandon the DNSO
consensus
> > > > policy process and incorporate the current proposal into a binding
Code
> > of
> > > > Conduct.
> > >
> > >   A "Code of Conduct" unless incorporated in an amendment to the
> > > existing Registrar contract that has been voted upon by any and all
> > > registrants that wish to participate, would be huge mistake and
> > > likely incur further legal wrangling that is both unnecessary and
> > > ill advised...
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've pulled everyone off the cc list, for the simple reason that
this
> > > > message is directed at the DNSO, not at anyone one in particular
> > (including
> > > > Dan to whom sparked this response)...
> > > >
> > > > -rwr
> > > >
> > > > *That part comes soon enough.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dan Steinberg" <synthesis@videotron.ca>
> > > > To: "Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com>
> > > > Cc: <DannyYounger@cs.com>; <ga@dnso.org>; <mcade@att.com>;
> > > > <roessler@does-not-exist.org>; <Elisabeth.Porteneuve@cetp.ipsl.fr>;
> > > > <RJS@lojo.co.nz>; <nick.wood@nom-iq.com>;
<grant.forsyth@clear.co.nz>;
> > > > <crusso@verisign.com>; <mcf@uwm.edu>; <orobles@nic.mx>;
> > > > <james.love@cptech.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 5:12 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Transfers: Apparent Authority Discussion
> > > >
> > > > > To be more precise...that gets you only part of the way. There is
> > > > > another party to the transaction who may or may not be bound by
this.
> > > > > and the 'may or may not'...could vary a lot depending on the fact
> > > > > pattern.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ross Wm. Rader" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To be more precise (and perhaps less bold ;) Registrars and
> > Registries
> > > > have
> > > > > > agreed to the terms under which transfers will be conducted
> > according to
> > > > the
> > > > > > laws in the jurisdictions that I mentioned. Everything else
flows
> > from
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -rwr
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Dan Steinberg" <synthesis@videotron.ca>
> > > > > > To: "Ross Wm. Rader" <ross@tucows.com>
> > > > > > Cc: <DannyYounger@cs.com>; <ga@dnso.org>; <mcade@att.com>;
> > > > > > <roessler@does-not-exist.org>;
<Elisabeth.Porteneuve@cetp.ipsl.fr>;
> > > > > > <RJS@lojo.co.nz>; <nick.wood@nom-iq.com>;
> > <grant.forsyth@clear.co.nz>;
> > > > > > <crusso@verisign.com>; <mcf@uwm.edu>; <orobles@nic.mx>;
> > > > > > <james.love@cptech.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 2:53 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [ga] Re: Transfers: Apparent Authority Discussion
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > actually...I beg to differ. The relevant jurisdiction claimed
by
> > one
> > > > > > > party is that. Just wait till it goes to court before making
such
> > bold
> > > > > > > assertions please?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > agreement on the rest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Ross Wm. Rader" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is an international environment we are dealing with
here
> > > > folks.
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > > > > good chunk of the world does not even operate under common
> > > > law...so
> > > > > > > > > agency law as Ross learned it...is totally inapplicable.
there
> > are
> > > > > > > > > analogous concepts, yes. but the correspondence and
statute,
> > and
> > > > > > caselaw
> > > > > > > > > and interpretation and legal foundations...are completely
> > > > different.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually no - for 99% of the transfers, the relevant
> > jurisdiction is
> > > > > > > > Virginia or Delaware.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think Danny Younger makes a good point.  So why not
focus on
> > > > coming
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > with a definition we all want to see inserted into
contractual
> > > > terms
> > > > > > > > > like the agreements between registrant and registrar, etc?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think that's the whole purpose of this exercise. Problem
> > being,
> > > > > > despite
> > > > > > > > the constant criticism from some quarters, there isn't a lot
of
> > > > drafting
> > > > > > > > going on. The core of a successful task force will always be
> > > > competing
> > > > > > > > proposals surrounding by cogent debate. Without it, nothing
> > > > effective
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > really be accomplished.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I strongly dare the GA to put together a document such as
you
> > have
> > > > > > described
> > > > > > > > Dan. The TF needs this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -rwr
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Dan Steinberg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SYNTHESIS:Law & Technology
> > > > > > > 35, du Ravin phone: (613) 794-5356
> > > > > > > Chelsea, Quebec fax:   (819) 827-4398
> > > > > > > J9B 1N1                 e-mail:synthesis@videotron.ca
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dan Steinberg
> > > > >
> > > > > SYNTHESIS:Law & Technology
> > > > > 35, du Ravin phone: (613) 794-5356
> > > > > Chelsea, Quebec fax:   (819) 827-4398
> > > > > J9B 1N1                 e-mail:synthesis@videotron.ca
> > > > > --
> > > > > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > > > > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > > > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > >
> > >
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>

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