[ga] Re: Choose your own

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

Thanks for these intelligent remarks, Roberto.

I do not wish to demean the memory of the victims of true fascism. Those are
too many millions of intimate family tragedies and devastated communities.

Your remarks deserve serious reflection.

Richard H

----- Original Message -----
From: Roberto Gaetano <ploki_xyz@hotmail.com>
To: <ga@dnso.org>
Cc: <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>; <jandl@jandl.com>;
<roessler@does-not-exist.org>; <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:14 AM
Subject: Choose your own


> Hi.
> I´m catching up with email, and when I saw the huge backlog piled up in
few
> days I thought that something really serious had happened.
> What a relief to see it was only the periodic remake of the "censorhip is
> good/bad" movie.
> I´m cumulating the answers, not necessarily in priority nor in
chronological
> order.
>
> Richard Henderson:
> >  I suspect that the German sense of humour is the problem here.
>
> Yuo´re right, but it´s probably the European sense of humour, more than
the
> German alone. Although we (Italians) mostly make fun of the German sense
of
> humour, I have to admit my solidarity with the Germans here.
> You quote sketches I unfortunately did not see, neither I´m aware of, so I
> might be off mark, but I don´t underestimate the sensitivity to a tragedy
> that has hit a great part (if not even the vast majority) of Europeans. We
> also have sketches on TV, but we take personal offense to be compared to
> people, like the fascists and the nazists, who have caused several
millions
> deaths. The size of few thousands twin towers blowups. In fact, there are
> lots of similarities. First of all, the victims were innocent. Their
fault,
> in the case of AlQaida´, to be there. In the case of fascists and nazists,
> to be of a certain race or religion, or to have certain sexual
inclination,
> or other factors that you cannot easily control (and for which you should
> not be discriminated in first place).
> Try to think of thousands of 9/11 over few years, affecting most of the
> families in a country, and you will realize how the sense of humour might
be
> affected for generations. Of course, Europeans have to get out of it, but
> please understand that it is not easy.
>
> To the general issue of "censorship":
> Well, I am *not* against censorship, but I do believe that it is justified
> only in extereme circumstances, and under the control of an appropriate
body
> who applies rules decided *before* the event. As an example, I do believe
> that (please forgive methe abused example) screaming "Fire" in an
> overcrowded theatre is not expression of free speech, that journalists on
> the front in case of war cannot divulgate any piece of information they
> have, and so on.
> So I agree with the principle of censorship (under extreme and controlled
> circumstances) but I disagree on how it was applied here.
> I personally know how INEGroup grows only through the replies of other
> participants of this list. I firmly believe that those who are annoyed by
> Jeff Williams posts have long ago learned how to deal with this. Those who
> think that INEGroup is a legitimate stakeholder of this process, are going
> only to be confirmed that there is an international plot against the
> legitimate interests of the cowboys of Grapewine. Everybody will keep
> his/her/its opinion regardless any action. In real life, there are many
Jeff
> Williams. You cannot shut up them. You shall not shut up them. You must
only
> prevent DoS attacks. Which is not the case. On the contrary, stopping
Jeff,
> who is a benign contributor, might only trigger other less benign
> contributors to take different actions, that might be a real DoS.
> Incidentally, I remember years ago, before the GA (even before ICANN), I
was
> surprised by Jeff wishing Happy Thanksgiving to everybody on the list we
> happened to participate. You´ll never know. Well, I don´t know. The
> wonderful sentence by Jon Postel about being conservative in writing and
> liberal in reading might be appropriate. Anybody here can quote it
exactly?
>
> To Leah:
> >As for the word fascist, the dictionary says this:
> >
> >   1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as
> >that   of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the
> >individual   and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed
> >by a   dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and
> >forcible   suppression of opposition
> >   2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> >dictatorial control
>
> Fine.
> But I do believe that "your dictionary" only tells the Anglo-Saxon
> interpretation of the word "fascist".
> Unfortunately, we Italians have the privilege to be the authority about
the
> meaning, :<( so may I quote one of the authorities (IMHO, *THE* authority,
> your mileage may vary) [Gabrielli (1989), Mondadori, page 1449], whose
only
> non-historical quote is "arrogant, tyrannical, violent person" (remark:
> Incidentally, the example happens to say "With this fascist you cannot
even
> discuss").
>
>
> About the Vittorio Bertola story:
> I know personally Vittorio, and I can say not only that he is in good
faith,
> but also that he puts his extra personal engagement for moving things
> forward. Incidentally, I am saying this against my personal interests,
> because Vittorio has run against me (and beaten me) for offices, and will
> probably do so in the future.
> It is very easy to find things that people do wrong, except when people do
> nothing. By extension, we can say that the more people do, the more they
> will do wrong. What is the measure of things? Your mistakes? Or your
> successes?
> I am frankly appalled by the many who only complain, judge, spit sentences
> (as we say in Italian), and never get their hands durty.
>
> To Stéphane Bortzmeyer:
> I followed the discussion on poisson (I also reported there on the
situation
> in the GA), but I do believe they happen in two different contexts. The
> population of the poisson list is different from the GA list, and the
people
> that contribute to the two pretend to speak for different communities.
> Rose´s draft fits there, I doubt it does hes here. Of course, I´d be
> delighted to be wrong.
>
> Bottom line, anybody?
> I´ll try one. Or two.
> Do we really need to shutup a voice to make the information flow better?
> Is censorship the favourite subject because we have little to say on
ohters?
>
> Regards
> Roberto
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>

--
This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html