Re: [ALSC-Forum] Re: [ga] Re: http://www.dnso.org/icannatlarge/2002.ICANNATLARGE-Panel-vote.html

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Vittorio and all stakeholders or interested parties,

Vittorio Bertola wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:31:22 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >  The MOST important thing is that where one does start must be
> >on the right foot.  That has not happened with ICANNATLARGE.COM.
>
> Jeff,
>
> I have been one of the active members on icannatlarge.com since the
> beginning, and I can tell you that it has been so damn hard even to
> *get* to these elections.

  I understand Vittorio.  I was onboard ICANNATLARGE.COM
shortly before you were.  Getting to these or any elections need not
be difficult.  Now, if you have people like Joop and Pinder or Esther,
that do not support electing in a open and transparent way, representatives
or votes on issues by the membership, than of course you are going
to have a "Dam hard time" getting it done..

> It cost me and other people (ie Thomas
> Roessler and Alexander Svensson) days and days of work preparing and
> discussing things, pushing for them to actually be done, finding
> resources (for example, a third party voting system), and keeping
> together Joop and a temporary panel of very busy and traveling people,
> though quite active.

  These discussions should have been in the open with any and all of the
members.  SOme of them from what you are saying here were not.
Hence we now have a ballot that as Joanna rightly pointed out
seems to be a huge mistake.  I for one am not surprised, but dismayed
to a degree.  None the less again, this too can be fixed.  But will it?
It will ONLY when the problems are out in the open to the members
to discuss and debate to arrive at a potential set of "Fixes" or
practices that are acceptable by vote of all the members.

>
>
> For example, Joop has been doing a great amount of work both with us
> and on his own, and nevertheless he's not the easiest person to work
> with, and there have been times when I didn't like at all what he was
> doing, and we even got to flame about it. However, in the end we could
> find an agreement that was acceptable to anyone, and though it didn't
> completely satisfy any of us, it allowed us to proceed - and this
> because we shared the goal to build an open effort that would allow to
> all interested individual users of the net to self-organize, and even
> if we didn't agree on every detail of the meaning of the words "open"
> and "self-organize", each one accepted to sacrifice something of his
> personal views to get to a working compromise.

  THere is no need, nor is it really possible to have a compromise
on "Open" and "Self Organize".  You either do or you don't.  Just
really that simple.  There are not levels of "Openness", and no
levels of "Self organize"...

>
>
> It would have been much easier for any of us to put up his own site,
> register a few friends, and claim to be the King of the At Large.

  That would be fine.  As you know there are at least 8 other AT-Large
organizations for ICANN already...

> It
> would have been even easier to flood mailing lists with complaints or
> suspicions or pure white noise. So I know that there are many things
> we did on which you, or others, might not agree. But if you want to
> build something suitable for thousands of people from hundreds of
> countries, you cannot think that it has to be like you alone conceive
> it.

  Agreed that building something suitable for thousands of people
from a  hundred countries is not an easy task.  I know, I have helped
to do it with INEGroup and other efforts long before IENGroup.  And
I have always advocated strongly and still do that no one alone can
conceive of it in it's entirety.  We at INEGroup certainly didn't!

>
>
> The same applies to these elections. Yes, I am worried about the lack
> of a proper debate among candidates (by the way, I am here, please ask
> whatever you want); yes, I fear that voters will again choose people
> by country or by sky-high slogans, rather than by their practicality,
> enthusiasm and skills; yes, I fear that not all candidates might have
> succeeded in presenting themselves at their best (some didn't even
> send a statement...) so that voters won't be able to make an informed
> choice.

  I am not worried about proper or even any debating amongst candidates
themselves, and have never said so.  I am only slightly worried about
debate and discussion in a completely open forum about issues however.
Currently the ICANNATLARGE.COM still does not even have such a
forum like this one to do that.  Yet there are not going to be elections.
Cart before horse here...

> But then, you have to try if you want to succeed. You cannot
> build a house only by talking, or by criticizing the colour of the
> walls.

  How true.  And I am not doing so.  If you believe that I am, than
I must only conclude that you are mistaken.  And that's fine too.
No one is perfect.

> If you had other views about how things should be done, you
> should have run as a candidate, or posted alternative proposals.
> Otherwise, please let us work.

  I am not stopping anyone from working.  Please work/play as
you think it is necessary to do.  But I am a member, I do have
opinions of my own that I feel should be expressed.  I am also
a spokesman for INEGroup with over 130K members world wide,
in 130+ countries.  Some of them have an interest in ICANNATLARGE.COM
and as their duly elected spokesman they require of me to
provide their collective views as best I can regarding ICANNATLARGE.COM.

>
> --
> .oOo.oOo.oOo.oOo vb.
> Vittorio Bertola     <vb@vitaminic.net>    Ph. +39 011 23381220
> Vitaminic [The Music Evolution] - Vice President for Technology
>
> DISCLAIMER, PLEASE NOTE: This communication is intended only for use by the
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208


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