RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?

["Bhavin Turakhia" <bhavin.t@directi.com>]

Hi tim,

The issue is

1. it does NOT take 60 days to obtain payment from the bank. That
happens immediately. It takes 60 days to verify if the transaction is
fraudulent or not (because im assuming most chargebacks occur in 60
days)

2. genuine customers will perceive this as a service lag. They would
rather do business with a registrar then who will credit them
immediately for the domain years. If they have bought a 5 year name,
they want a 5 year name. Why should they have to bother to check again
after 60 days and remember that their registrar is supposed to add 4
more years to the registration. What if the registrar does not add those
4 years. It would remain as a thought with the customer.

3. despite informing customers, I know that most customers generally do
not read a barrage of emails that they get and will still go and check
the whois and then call technical support as to why their expiry date is
showing only 1 year when they paid for 5

4. the method you are suggesting is something customers are not used to
and it will take a large amount of time for this information to spread
(assuming this practice is adopted by all registrars)

5. the issue with this method is there will always be a faction of
registrars who will adopt it and a faction who will not, creating
further confusion amongst customers, whereby customers will argue with a
registrar as to why they follow this type of a practice when other
registrars do not. Additionally since there will not be universal
adoption it will result in confusion and lack of a common standard

6. you must agree that if a solution which DOES NOT penalise the genuine
customers, and yet at the same time allows protection to the registrars
(without allowing any gaming) exists, then it makes more sense to adopt
that as a long term feasible solution

Bhavin

PS: ummm in the end - are you against getting a refund for deleted names
which are fraudulently registered :) ..... Cuz im sure you have to
battle CC fraud yourself

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Ruiz [mailto:tim@godaddy.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:14 PM
> To: Patricio Valdes; Gomes, Chuck; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; 
> registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> I think Chuck is making a reasonable suggestion here.
> 
> Explain to the customer that the first year will be applied 
> immediately, the other years will be added once the payment 
> has cleared or processed with their bank or credit card 
> company, which usually takes 60 days.
> 
> That could be clearly presented during the renewal process, 
> registration agreement, terms of service, etc.
> 
> That should also alleviate most concerns about discrepancies 
> between the registrar and registry expiration dates.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> Behalf Of Patricio Valdes
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:32 AM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; 'Bhavin Turakhia'; registrars@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> 
> If a registrar does not have confidence that its procedures 
> are not yet solid enough to prevent erroneous extensions or 
> to prevent fraudulent new registrations, then it might be a 
> good idea to simply handle multi-year registrations in this 
> manner: 1) initially register or renew a name for only one 
> year with VGRS; 2) during the first 60 days or so of the 
> new/renewed registration period, perform internal quality 
> checks and apply fraud management techniques; 3) if internal 
> quality checks and fraud investigation yield positive 
> results, then extend the name for multiple years.
> 
> 
> ----This used to be a good idea, but like I mentioned in a 
> previous thread, this can no longer be done after Verisign 
> decided to show full expiration date on Whois.
> 
> Again, who's the only one winning here? Why did they do it in 
> the first place? Beats me, I really do not know who benefits 
> from showing expiration date on Internic's whois, except 
> Verisign and Hackers who register using fraudalent credit 
> cards to register domains.
> 
> Patricio Valdes
> Parava Networks
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bhavin Turakhia [mailto:bhavin.t@directi.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:34 AM
> To: 'Patricio Valdes'; registrars@dnso.org
> Cc: 'Gomes, Chuck'
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> This is inkeeping partially with what we asked chuck. Your 
> observation is an important one too. Verisign unfortunately 
> has no way to credit you for years both in a renewal, or a 
> new registration. Both of these are important from the 
> perspective of registrars doing business. We deal in web 
> services other than domain names and when any customer of 
> ours renews their web hosting package by mistake for 4 years 
> and wants to convert it to 1 year we refund them the money 
> for 3 years.
> 
> Additionally what we were requesting chuck gomes was the 
> ability to delete a name and obtain a refund for the lattter 
> years. Ie if we delete a 5 year domin (after the grace 
> period) we should get refund for 4 years considering the 
> registry can sell that name - it is now in the available 
> pool. This is imperative to reduce our risk exposure in 
> credit card fraud where fraudsters register domain names for 
> 5-10 years and we cannot discover the fraud until a month 
> later. We end up losing more money in a single fraud than 
> what we make on selling a 100 domains
> 
> bhavin
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org 
> [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Patricio 
> Valdes
> > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:24 AM
> > To: registrars@dnso.org
> > Subject: [registrars] Canceling Renewals?
> >
> >
> > To all Registrars;
> >
> > Im sure we are not the only Registrar out there that has had this 
> > happen to, we accidentally renewed 30 domain names for a 
> client for 4 
> > years instead of 1. Verisign is telling us there is no way 
> of getting 
> > these Credits back or remove years to these names.
> >
> > I really think this is way beyond ridiculous!
> >
> > At this point we are really considering giving up being a 
> Registrar, 
> > the only people here winning are the Registry
> > (Verisign) and a few big Registrars.
> >
> > ICANN has done nothing to help smaller Registrars or to booster 
> > competition and it is nothing new that almost everything it 
> does goes 
> > to support Network Solutions and Verisign.
> >
> > We never get involved in the discussions because we barely 
> have time 
> > to run the business, now we are regretting it.
> >
> > How the hell did something like the Redemption Period and 
> $85 charge 
> > get approved? Sure as hell beats me.
> >
> > If anyone knows of a buyer please let us know, we are really fed up 
> > with ICANN, Verisign and Network Solutions controlling this 
> business.
> >
> > Anyone has any job openings?
> >
> > Patricio Valdes
> > Parava Networks
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
>